Diamonds Are Bullshit • Hacker News Board

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#71

Post by ryderm » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 11:04 PM UTC

clicks wrote: post #52

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.

My sister is still mad as hell at her husband for not having spent enough for their wedding (he spent about $25k), and I've heard her once or twice complain about the ring. I'll occasionally take shots at my sister for this (because, well, she's my sister and she loves taking shots at me too so it's fair). But my God I don't dare challenge the issue of spending extravagantly on rings/weddings with another woman (I on…

> I did spend $700 on my chair, $300 on my kinesis keyboard, $800 on my LCD monitor, etc. etc.

The difference is that these are all things that increase comfort and health, not only happiness. As somebody who sits at a computer all day, this has a huge impact on your back, wrists, eyes, etc.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#72

Post by Zimahl » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 11:04 PM UTC

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.

I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this.

Karma be damned but women as a whole are swayed more by marketing then men are. They've been sold the princess wedding, the diamond ring, the brand-name clothing, etc. It's difficult to break them of this so sometimes the fight isn't worth it.

I didn't pay for my wedding so that was my in-laws problem although it wasn't grandiose (but it could've been) and I was fairly poor when we got engaged so the two-month salary guideline was a joke.

As for diamonds, my wife loves jewelery but has grown up and realized that everyone off the street can't tell the difference between CZ and a diamond. Case in point, I bought her a very nice ring from Nordstrom that looks like it's probably an $8k+ diamond ring and that everyone else thinks is a 'rock'. But it's just a big piece of CZ, surrounded by smaller pieces of CZ. Not one person has ever questioned whether it's a diamond or at least doesn't have the balls to. If asked my wife would be honest but she's never been asked (at least around me).

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#73

Post by sliverstorm » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 11:06 PM UTC

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #66

sliverstorm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody does it "for the sake of tradition". It is a web of expectations where the cost of bucking the expectations is great enough that buckling often is the more attractive option. It is also a well-entrenched example of costly signaling [1] in humans [2] (For the lazy, costly signaling basically says, a costly empty gesture is a strong indicator of mate quality, because only a high-quality mate can afford to waste…

Sorry, the link to honest signaling is a bit lost on me, can you elaborate? Are you saying that people buy diamond rings because it's expected? I would hope there would be a discussion about that before going out and buying a ring. (And if not, I would consider that part of the "tradition" of: the man must propose, the man must spend a fortune on the ring, the man must surprise the woman on one knee, etc). Anyway, so…

I updated my original comment a bit. Does that explain things better?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#74

Post by Skoofoo » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 11:07 PM UTC

What are some cool alternatives to a diamond ring? I want to get a ring with a carbon nanotube "gem", but there doesn't seem to be a practical way to acquire that.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#75

Post by gertef » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 11:07 PM UTC

tn13 wrote: post #40

So true. I spent more money on my marriage than on my masters degree. Fuc . My wife has more gold and diamonds than money my family ever owned otherwise. All that stuff doesn't suite her, is locked up in locker rooms of some bank 364 days a year. (And yeah I pay for that fucking locker as well). Any discussion of selling it would lead to a WWII like situation in the home. The cost of Gold might be skyrocketing but wh…

gold jewelry price is for the art, not the mass.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#76

Post by betterunix » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 11:07 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #31

arbuge wrote: post #13

"So here is a modest proposal: Let’s agree that diamonds are bullshit and reject their role in the marriage process. Let’s admit that as a society we got tricked for about century into coveting sparkling pieces of carbon, but it’s time to end the nonsense." Hear hear, but good luck convincing zillions of single women that they'll be the first generation in living memory to miss out on their carbon.

I'm of the opinion that it's easier to lead people toward something better, rather than away from something bad. So instead of overpriced compressed carbon, how about paying for unique designs with rationally priced materials instead?

How about rings that convey some actual benefit to their bearer, like perhaps the ability to procure books and other supplies related to a child's education at no cost? Why make it a fashion statement, when you could make it something useful?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#77

Post by jquery » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 11:08 PM UTC

What "rational" material can fit on a finger, weighs a few grams or less, is convenient enough to wear everyday, is mostly fungible (yes, diamonds are fungible at the wholesale level), is durable, insurable, and is worth any arbitrary amount you can think of depending on its characteristics?

Diamonds are great for their purpose, which is social signaling at a high level.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#78

Post by gertef » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 11:08 PM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #25

pyre wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| If the ring is more important to the | woman than I am, then she's not marrying | me, she's marrying the ring From some women's perspectives the diamond ring is 'proof' of your love.

A commitment to spend one's life with the other person isn't proof of love?

That's a claim, not a proof.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#79

Post by jlgreco » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 11:08 PM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #12

mattparlane wrote: post #8

Gah! The writer needs to read this: http://www.its-not-its.info/

I used to make posts like this. I'm starting to feel like these words will merge in the next 100 years, and either form will be correct for all usages. This kind of errata in our language doesn't help us do anything and it just causes confusion and frustration.

> I'm starting to feel like these words will merge in the next 100 years, and either form will be correct for all usages.

Interesting thought since, prior to the 19th century, "its" frequently was spelled "it's".

I have long considered it one of the abominations of the English language that a contraction ("it is" -> "it's") is given precedence over a pronoun with what is clearly a saxon genitive. Contractions should always take the lowest possible precedence in cases of collisions as far as I am concerned.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#80

Post by Zimahl » Tue, Mar 19, 2013, 11:09 PM UTC

clicks wrote: post #52

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.

My sister is still mad as hell at her husband for not having spent enough for their wedding (he spent about $25k), and I've heard her once or twice complain about the ring. I'll occasionally take shots at my sister for this (because, well, she's my sister and she loves taking shots at me too so it's fair). But my God I don't dare challenge the issue of spending extravagantly on rings/weddings with another woman (I on…

My mother always said 'if a big wedding guaranteed happiness everyone would have one'. Then again she came from a generation where a wedding was a church and family with a reception at someone's house - not an opportunity to feed 300 of you 'closest' friends.

We've all seen plenty of insane, $50k weddings result in 3-year marriages.