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Deep Learning - The Biggest Data Science Breakthrough of the Decade

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Re: Deep Learning - The Biggest Data Science Breakthrough of the Decade

#71
post #29

I am sorry, but does anyone else have the impression that a lot of people is commenting here with so much confidence while clearly not knowing anything about the topic? It takes almost an equivalent of an undergraduate mathematics degree and than a lot of experience in ML itself to get a decent understanding how things like Deep Belief Networks work, so I don't wonder none of the comments so far hinted at any underst…

The OP title include "The Biggest Data Science Breakthrough of the Decade", the topic has already stopped being "is this interesting" but rather "is there something to justify the hype" or, surprise, "is this 'The Biggest Data Science Breakthrough of the Decade'" Sure, I only have a graduate math degree and only follow these latest developments casually and perhaps I just miss exact way this newest artificial neural…

All (good) statisticians validate their models. Nothing new there.

The main difference between these newer networks (besides much improved performance) is that the algorithms can handle "deeper" networks better (more hidden units). If we're talking about Deep Belief Networks, they're not much like the old ANNs. DBNs are generative probabilistic graphical models using Bayesian inference.

Conceptually, going deeper (LOL) allows the networks to learn higher level concepts. For example, a 1 layer ANN (perceptron) can only learn linear functions, while a deep network is able to internally form a belief of what, say, a cat is.

More technically: Much of the work in ML is deciding what your inputs (features) should be. When classifying text documents, should you use word counts, bag of words, word stemming, character counts, etc. Should the model be linear, polynomial, gaussian, trigometric, etc. Deep learners try to automatically do feature selection and control the degrees of freedom in the model for you.

Also, deep learning is catching on in some industries. It has recently had huge successes in speech recognition, and all major companies developing this technology have started using it (e.g. Siri for one).

Re: Deep Learning - The Biggest Data Science Breakthrough of the Decade

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP title include "The Biggest Data Science Breakthrough of the Decade", the topic has already stopped being "is this interesting" but rather "is there something to justify the hype" or, surprise, "is this 'The Biggest Data Science Breakthrough of the Decade'" Sure, I only have a graduate math degree and only follow these latest developments casually and perhaps I just miss exact way this newest artificial neural…

All (good) statisticians validate their models. Nothing new there. The main difference between these newer networks (besides much improved performance) is that the algorithms can handle "deeper" networks better (more hidden units). If we're talking about Deep Belief Networks, they're not much like the old ANNs. DBNs are generative probabilistic graphical models using Bayesian inference. Conceptually, going deeper (LO…

At the risk of being a bit annoying... regarding speech recognition, as said here

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5376319

they use DNNs not DBNs (DBNs only used for pre-training, sometimes). Also if you read Microsoft's paper Table2, 7 hidden layer networks, which clearly qualifies as deep, work just fine with Back-propagation. Just a bigfat-MLP, no preprocessing! but 17.4 Word Error Rate (WER) vs 17.0 WER for DBN pre-training.

>they're not much like the old ANNs. DBNs are generative probabilistic graphical models using Bayesian inference.

MLPs (DNNs) can also be interpreted probabilistically. Just a directed model where inference is attained by marginalization of the hidden binary nodes in a layer-wise manner and by using a naive mean field approximation. All that to say the classic "forward-pass" ;).

Also could you indicate me a source confirming that Siri (Nuance) also switched to DNNs?. I am interested in that.

>Conceptually, going deeper (LOL) allows the networks to learn higher level concepts.

That is the really interesting part!. Now, I have not seen a proof for that. Wondering at individual neurons modeling individual features of e.g. a face or so is also a trend of the 90s and does not count as proof. I said this because it is what I usually hear.

Until now the justifications I saw for multiple layers of perceptrons being suitable for modeling arbitrary high level abstractions are reduced to

1) MLPs are universal approximators. This in my opinion is a superficial argument. GMMs also allow modeling "any" distribution and Taylor series any linear function, but in reality there are physical limitations to this argument. Maybe is true if you had a billion layer net, but will you get there?. If you had that computing power maybe a more realistic modeling of the brain might work better

2) They resemble how brain architecture works and similar arguments. Which I am fairly sure is not true. There are more human-brain based approaches to AI like e.g. cortical learning algorithms and those just seem to model that stuff to a certain extent.

Re: Deep Learning - The Biggest Data Science Breakthrough of the Decade

#74
post #62
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>not used in industry Well, that ones about me. Yes, I have a plenty of experience in machine learning, including undergraduate research in neural networks, a graduate degree in machine learning, and more than five years of industry experience (including several years building some of the most utilized neural network models in industry). I have read many of the deep network papers in detail, and have played around wi…

What kind of insight into whether deep networks are interesting or not does the fact that they are (supposedly) not used in the industry bring to the table? To me, insight would be something like "they do not generalize well unless you have really a lot of data" or anything concretely related to the research done on them. By the way, I am not asking anyone what their degree is, I am just asking to bring arguments and…

You missed the point of my comment. I was speaking about the hype, I wasn't putting down deep networks or making a technical analysis of the algorithms. Anyway, here are my major reservations, including my technical analysis. You're oddly demanding in a casual non-technical online discussion about a topic you don't seem qualified in, so if this isn't enough for you we really aren't going to find common ground.

There isn't great library support for deep networks. This is a big deal, I don't want to spend tons of time building my own library or working with buggy/poorly supported/infant libraries. In production systems we prefer extremely well-established libraries that work in our language/environment of choice. Also deep belief networks are a couple orders of magnitude slower than linear models (probably the most commonly used type of model in industry). They require more parameter selection. They're not even useful for a lot of tasks - if I'm already spending tons of time building useful features (often a requirement in industry for non-technical reasons, like reporting or legal constraints) deep networks aren't going to be very useful. Much of their utility is taking raw, unstructured data and creating useful features for a supervised model. You can't easily interpret them as models unless you are working with visual data, they are a black box.

Re: Deep Learning - The Biggest Data Science Breakthrough of the Decade

#75
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not playing the credentials game, quite the contrary, I remember trying to understand DBFs while at the university and failing miserably due to the complexity of the subject. I am also not defending deep learning in any way or having any stance about the subject myself. I just think in a place like HN you should not criticize technology without having practical experience or technical arguments, and of course "n…

1. Google hiring X is not the same as X's model being scientifically valid. 2. Model X for intelligence being highly technical or cool in some mathematical way is not scientific validation. 3. Google hiring X is not the same as X's model being successful in the industry. I have long switched over to DuckDuckGo for technical queries. Anyways, what AI people should first address always is point number 2. AI has always…

[deleted]

Re: Deep Learning - The Biggest Data Science Breakthrough of the Decade

#76
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not playing the credentials game, quite the contrary, I remember trying to understand DBFs while at the university and failing miserably due to the complexity of the subject. I am also not defending deep learning in any way or having any stance about the subject myself. I just think in a place like HN you should not criticize technology without having practical experience or technical arguments, and of course "n…

1. Google hiring X is not the same as X's model being scientifically valid. 2. Model X for intelligence being highly technical or cool in some mathematical way is not scientific validation. 3. Google hiring X is not the same as X's model being successful in the industry. I have long switched over to DuckDuckGo for technical queries. Anyways, what AI people should first address always is point number 2. AI has always…

The downvote is amusing. Care to engage in an interesting conversation rather than resorting to drive-by-downvoting? I guess I touched an sensitive point with the Google fan boys here. Sigh.
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