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Why I created Comic Sans

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Re: Why I created Comic Sans

#71

Post by coldtea »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #70
simonsarris wrote: post #7

Comic Sans as a font needs no defense. Just like a good band with bad fans, we don't balk at Comic Sans, we balk at the people who use comic sans for inappropriate things. (Or to use a more computery analogy, there's nothing wrong with capital letters or all-caps, but some users use them inappropriately). City memo minutes should not be distributed in Comic Sans. Wedding invitations should probably not be in Comic Sa…

"Comic Sans as a font needs no defense." I disagree, it's just not a good font. It has zero contrast (not suitable for display text and print), no harmony (not suitable for body text), and it's poorly hinted (not suitable for screen text). It looks more like finger painting than comic lettering [1]. It's not even a true sans serif; in the article, the author admits to cheating. There are way better fonts that Microso…

>I disagree, it's just not a good font. It has zero contrast (not suitable for display text and print), no harmony (not suitable for body text), and it's poorly hinted (not suitable for screen text).

Which is beside the point. It wasn't supposed to be used for body text or print in small sizes. And it doesn't have to be hinted because it's not meant to be used for long form screen text.

Would you call a title font "bad" because it's not suitable for body text?

As for it "not even being a true sans serif", there are several fonts that cross those boundaries while being perfectly fine. Not being a true "sans/serif" is not some badge of dishonour.

Comic Sans is a good font because it is perfectly suited to convey the message people use it for: child-like, friendliness, common folk-syness etc. As such it's great for personal posters, party invitations, signs, yard sales, elementary school signs, etc.

Notice that even if that wasn't the usage intended by its creators, it's still a good font, because it found it's own niche.

Re: Why I created Comic Sans

#72

Post by coldtea »

digitalengineer wrote: post #57
jQueryIsAwesome wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what you mean by "say"; if you mean gender I think is true. But if you consider people who like just one music genre and can stay motivated and loyal only because of that then you don't have too much say about who will be your fans, if you like trash metal it doesn't matter if you have a PHD from Harvard and your social circle is mostly composed by honored students, because the genre you may appel to a ver…

Kurt Cobain sure did. By cross-dressing he made Nirvana have a lot less appeal for the heavy metal fans.

Really? Heavy Metal fans were into cross dressing ever since the seventies. Including gay all-leather biker chic, long curly bubblegum hair and tights in the eighties...

Re: Why I created Comic Sans

#75

Post by lloeki »

coldtea wrote: post #71
Samuel_Michon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Comic Sans as a font needs no defense." I disagree, it's just not a good font. It has zero contrast (not suitable for display text and print), no harmony (not suitable for body text), and it's poorly hinted (not suitable for screen text). It looks more like finger painting than comic lettering [1]. It's not even a true sans serif; in the article, the author admits to cheating. There are way better fonts that Microso…

> I disagree, it's just not a good font. It has zero contrast (not suitable for display text and print), no harmony (not suitable for body text), and it's poorly hinted (not suitable for screen text). Which is beside the point. It wasn't supposed to be used for body text or print in small sizes. And it doesn't have to be hinted because it's not meant to be used for long form screen text. Would you call a title font "…

I found the last example pretty convincing: I did not recognise Chalkboard, and the first part seemed readable to me to the point I said myself "Well, Comic Sans is not so bad finally"... and then the last line instantly jumped at me due to kerning and baseline. Comic Sans glyphs seem to each stand on their own, unable to keep themselves together to form a word. Chalkboard is far from perfect (see k-e kern) but it is way more readable, even for small text or stand-alone words.

The case against Comic Sans in undue context is due to the funny glyphs, while the case against Comic Sans vs other comic fonts is due not to the glyphs but to the whitespace around them.

Re: Why I created Comic Sans

#76

Post by tripzilch »

tikhonj wrote: post #8

One of the reasons people don't like Comic Sans is because it was overused, largely thanks to being included with a bunch of default Microsoft tools. It was also use in the wrong contexts. Amusingly, I think the same holds true of the typeface that sparked the whole thing: Time New Roman. Far too many people use it for far too much, sometimes in the wrong context. So maybe we should all use Times less too! (I tend to…

If you know how to select Comic Sans, you know how to select a different serif like Times. In default Windows installs there's at least 3-5 other choices for "serious serif font". And people do that, also the less tech-savvy ones: if they just want to type their homework, it's Times (or Arial), no second thought. But if it's something they want to "stand out" or be different they can easily pick a substitute like Georgia from the list.

But if people just write a note, or anything they intend to come across as "not too stern, not too serious, but also not too boring" there is just Comic Sans, in the default list of Windows fonts.

Like another commenter said, it's like a market is underserved. Except it's not a market, because it's Windows' default font list (there's enough alternatives on the market). It needs another informal, slightly quirky font if you want to break the reign of Comic Sans. They might have gone a bit in this direction with Calibri (subtly rounded) and Candara (playful) but those are way too subtle to notice in the (oddly tiny) font selection lists.

And something else, IMO, Times News Roman is for me the example that, apart from popularity and being an over-used default font, there is something extra wrong with Comic Sans. After all those years of being negatively conditioned with Times as the default Apache 404 Error font, and so many other places, all that's caused is a strong notion of neutrality and blandness. I don't dislike Times, and I also believe there is no discussion on that it's strictly better designed than Comic Sans: it's got more glyphs, the letter forms are more constant and harmonious, etc. And with some thought[0], you can combine it with another font (Arial being the obvious choice) and use it in a headline/body text combo, and it actually doesn't even look half bad. Somebody put some thought in that, it looks clean and they just happen to be two of the most-used fonts. I challenge anyone to pull that off with Comic Sans, even in combination with another font.

Personally I think, add just one cool informal font to the Windows default list, and IMO it will be fine. Really the thing that bothers me most about Comic Sans is that it's the only choice [for people not savvy enough to install extra fonts], so I can't really fault anyone for using it because any alternative I could suggest involves quite a bit of extra work for them (in addition it might revert to some default font on the next office PC where it's not available).

[0] this almost always means: whitespace

Re: Why I created Comic Sans

#77

Post by Zecc »

tjoff wrote: post #63
tikhonj wrote: post #8

One of the reasons people don't like Comic Sans is because it was overused, largely thanks to being included with a bunch of default Microsoft tools. It was also use in the wrong contexts. Amusingly, I think the same holds true of the typeface that sparked the whole thing: Time New Roman. Far too many people use it for far too much, sometimes in the wrong context. So maybe we should all use Times less too! (I tend to…

No one has ever been fired for choosing Times ;) Seriously, people don't care and they don't choose Time as much as it is either the default or the only font they know of. And honestly, I use the default pretty much all the time (which seldom is Times nowadays). Back in early school I was told Verdana was better and since it was more spacious that made a strong argument for it as well, since it was easier to fill a p…

Verdana is the font I'm reading these comments in.

Re: Why I created Comic Sans

#79

Post by obstacle1 »

nivla wrote: post #52
eru wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot your footnote.

Yup obstacle did forget his footnote which I was also interested in. Making a guess that it is going to be a link to Amazon, let me steal that chance: http://www.amazon.com/Just-My-Type-About-Fonts/dp/1592407463...

Sorry! I messed up, I did mean to post an amazon link. Thanks for picking up where I'm slacking.

Re: Why I created Comic Sans

#80

Post by randomchars »

Surio wrote: post #66
hdra wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cambia is a serif, while Calibiri is a sans. How is it mixed up?

A Serif title with Sans body-text for the web the inverse is true for print . i.e., Sans for header and Serif for body for print documents. Now, re-read this: Microsoft did partly address that by making Cambria and Calibri its default header and body fonts (for Word) Did they get it mixed up? I think so.

I would think that was a conscious choice. My impression is that people print much less today than ten years ago.
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