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Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice

#71

Post by sbennettmcleish »

Whilst it is Microsoft with bags of money and all that, I don't really see how such a huge fine (even for M$) is warranted.

Yes, they stopped offering the browser choice, but at what point did someone from EU-HQ contact MS-HQ and tell them they'll be fined if they don't put it back in? Surely it would only take a few weeks at the most to actually re-instate the "feature" once they were threatened with a huge fine.

It might have been better for Microsoft to have actually been forced to give money to the other browsers to promote their products, or alternatively, just bundle Firefox/Chrome with Windows and be done with it.

Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice

#72

Post by masklinn »

brg1007 wrote: post #40
tomp wrote: post #4

I think more companies should be fined like this, as a percentage of their anual revenue. Except that I would further increase the percentage - up to 50% or even 100%. It's very simple: citizens go to jail, companies can't; so we have to make them pay, a lot. When fines are a fixed amount, the corporations have to simply earn more by committing the crime than they would have to pay if caught; banks are very adept at…

This fine is plain stupid. Why EU doesn't fine Google for the same thing on Android. Android is in a monopoly position in EU and I do not saw any broswer choice screen when I first start my Android phone.

> Android is in a monopoly position in EU

Not even close. It's in a majority position but nowhere near a monopoly.

Although it can probably be considered to be a "dominant position", but then come the next part:

1. Has somebody complained

2. Is "Android" using its dominant position to distort the market

Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice

#74

Post by masklinn »

kawsper wrote: post #31
youngtaff wrote: post #2

It's completely crazy. We've accepted browsers are part of the OS for a long time, what's next fining Apple for not promoting Mozilla or Chrome on iOS?

When Apple have a monopoly, they will be part of these rules as well. As soon as you enters monopoly status in the EU, there is certain rules and regulations that you need to comply with.

> As soon as you enters monopoly status in the EU, there is certain rules and regulations that you need to comply with.

So is it in the US as well.

Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice

#75

Post by lucb1e »

nolok wrote: post #41
Zirro wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money paid to the European Court goes back into the EU budget.

And lowers the amount member states have to pay (it does not increase the budget)

Oh that's an interesting detail. That way the EU doesn't enrich itself but it ensures that such "profits" are equally divided among member states. (Because it all saves them money they would otherwise have had to pay.) Nice to know.

Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice

#76

Post by kabdib »

tomp wrote: post #63
Tichy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would send people to jail for not giving dumb users a browser choice that is only going to confuse them anyway?

Laws should be followed. If laws are bad, you should change the laws, not disregard them.

Some laws you have an obligation to not follow.

Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice

#77

Post by mda »

netrus wrote: post #60
mda wrote: post #46

Microsoft will probably counter-fine by raising its prices by 1€ in EU. Europe will happily pay for it.

If they can raise their prices by x without harming their business, why haven't they done it already?

It harms them, but only in the long term. But if a company is fined, increasing prices is the easiest way to balance the numbers.

Microsoft already started hiking prices for some of the enterprise products, and for now they can afford this.

Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice

#78

Post by powertower »

sgift wrote: post #34
youngtaff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but the original judgement was wrong too - politically motivated you might say

Yeah, it had the political motivation to uphold the European laws regarding abuses of a monopoly. Evil ...

Got to protect those people who can't figure out how to open IE and download the browser that they really want.

Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice

#79

Post by masklinn »

[deleted] wrote: post #61

[deleted]

> Is iOS required to have the same browser selection screen?

iOS is not in a monopolistic position.

> Are mobile devices required to have a browser option?

If one of them becomes so ubiquitous it is a natural monopoly.

> Then why is Windows required to?

Because Microsoft is (or at least was, at the time of the ruling) a natural monopoly, and found abusing its desktop OS monopoly into the distortion of other markets. Then they decided to drop their requirements according to court rulings, without said court being consulted. Thus, fine.

> I've never heard of anyone complaining about Windows Media Player and Windows Calculator being installed by default.

So?

> Apple quickly took down their Samsung apology, where is their $700 million fine?

You don't seem to be aware that the UK and the EU are different legal and geopolitical entities. You may want to read up on the subject, as well as on the subject of anti-trust legislation.

Re: Microsoft fined $731m by European Commission over web browser choice

#80

Post by powertower »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #53
pepperp wrote: post #35

Why don't they start fining car manufacturers for not providing customers with a choice of seats made by other manufactures? Antitrust law in the EU is a load of bs, coming from someone who uninstalls IE first thing after installing Windows.

You're misunderstanding. The problem is that Microsoft is using its OS monopoly to try and create another one. These special anticompetetive triggers only come into effect when the company has a monopoly. To be more clear, there is noting illegal about HAVING a monopoly. It's what you do WITH a monopoly that matters. If you don't have a monopoly, you're much less restricted with what you can do. To correct you analog…

Since when couldn't you just open IE and download your browser of choice?

The browser ballot is BS imposed by bureaucrats.

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