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Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

jeffjlin.com

71–80 of 111 posts

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#71
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for clarification, I think Wyo is this case is referring to Wyomissing, PA

I'm impressed that people on an online forum with visitors from all around the world think that abbreviating the name of some far out small town makes sense. I get NY and SF, but "Wyo" for anything other than Wyoming?

Agreed, but I can only guess that Wyo is not a usual shortcut for Wyoming. Although I made that mistake as well.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#72
post #10

I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (sh…

I agree there's no real 'overnight' success. I remember watching interview by Daniel Dae Kim, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Dae_Kim

When asked what he thought about his overnight success by the local TV anchorwoman, I remember him muttering something about being an actor playing bit parts for almost 10 years before he got his big break, LOST. As far as he was concerned, his success wasn't overnight but took many years.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#73

I read the story. It is very touching. That said, I think stories like this send a very dangerous message. The reality of the matter is that for every person who stuck to their passion and ultimately "succeeded," there are thousands who lived the rest of their lives in obscurity and never "made it." When I was reading the story and Ang Le said he started taking computer science classes at the local college, I though,…

Persevering seems to be a very personal choice and there's no correct decision for everyone. It's easy to look at someone who hasn't achieved the level of success they desire and to write them off while encouraging them to take a safer, more conventional path. The trouble is that such a decision all but guarantees their ambition won't be realized. It seems that those who are just happy doing their thing are the ones most apt to persevering. They also seem like the ones who would feel more disappointed by giving up than by having not "made it" yet.

At what point would you call it a day? Is there some point you can determine it's worth giving up? I'm curious to know how you'd make such a decision.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#74
post #10

I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (sh…

survivor bias. you just don't see all the other people "sticking to it" and never making it. you're discounting luck, chance, etc. one bad decision or just bad luck moment and you're toast. and for female singers - if your genes made you butt ugly, no career for you, no matter how great you sing.

" and for female singers - if your genes made you butt ugly, no career for you, "

Music is not limited to the payola crap pumped on most stations you know

And I'd say it probably gets better with music sharing over the internet, the ones complaining are usually the executive heads.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#75
post #33
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has its own sets of biases. Working on a startup with nothing coming of it only works until you're tapped out. How many founders do you know would just remain broke when they run out of money vs doing the rational thing which is getting a job or whatever to get back to supporting life's basic necessities?

Ang Lee was, even after 5 years of failure. I have heard of quite a few people in other industries (namely entertainment and art) that just failed to make it and would have been better served having spent that time pursuing something else. I've never heard of an example in tech startups though. I would love to run a controlled experiment. Unfortunately we can't force people to do anything, so we never really can elim…

> would have been better served having spent that time pursuing something else

This is just the gamble that success requires. It's easy to say that objectively they may have been better doing something else in retrospect, but perhaps they felt some satisfaction trying. In any event, it's impossible to know whether someone is going to succeed in advance, or remain unsuccessful.

It appears the decision to persevere, like the decision to "give up", cannot be made rationally. I'd love to be shown otherwise though.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#76
post #12

Here's the author trying to explain how long Ang Lee spent working towards success: "Imagine starting something now, this year, that you felt you were pretty good at, having won some student awards, devoting yourself to it full time…and then getting rejected over and over until 2019." This reminds me of the "Story of Longitude" where John Harrison spent decades of his life in search of his prize (the first "X-Prize"?…

Thanks for narrating the story of John Harrison. I would say that what he found was the GPS equivalent of his time.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#77
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any, but I do wonder if this is another reason why there's a bias towards younger founders (or at least the perception of one). You start a company at 25 after a few years of unfulfilling work, put your nose to the grindstone for 5 years, and, in this unusually terrible hypothetical, end up with nothing but lost time and opportunity. But hey, you're 30. There's time for a comeback. There's no age limit o…

I feel in a lot of ways that starting over at 50 must be easier than starting over at 30. At 30 you possibly have kids, a spouse, and are just getting started in a mortgage. At 50 the kids are off to college, the house should be paid off or close to it, and now you have many peers in the same situation as you (ie, access to capital). It's no wonder the avg age for entrepreneurs is mid 40s

[deleted]

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#78
post #10

I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (sh…

> If you stick with it, you'll be successful. It doesn't matter where you come from, who your parents are, what you know, who you know, or how you look. All that is required is a choice I'm going to present a different picture of the world. I think it's a more accurate one. Not necessarily more useful. There is no such thing as a guarantee of success -- at least, for a definition of success that includes broad recogn…

There's a surprisingly good book by Seth Godin (sorry!) called The Dip about this dilemma.

http://www.amazon.com/Dip-Little-Book-Teaches-Stick/dp/15918...

The key thing, he says, about successful people is they quickly and accurately either choose to abandon something very very fast, or to pursue it through the depressing dip to sucess.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#80

I read the story. It is very touching. That said, I think stories like this send a very dangerous message. The reality of the matter is that for every person who stuck to their passion and ultimately "succeeded," there are thousands who lived the rest of their lives in obscurity and never "made it." When I was reading the story and Ang Le said he started taking computer science classes at the local college, I though,…

I think the biggest difference here is that he's not dreaming alone. His wife is extremely supportive on his career and was as committed as him in his pursue to be great in film. In the essay he wrote he tore up the schedule after his wife told him: "Don't forget your dreams." because she found out he'd been going to computer classes and got upset by that. He was not the only on in the pursue of the big dream, they both were, so he doesn't get to make the decision to give up on his own. It's a great, great fortune to have someone who stands by you in the long, frustrating journey, and it made all the differences.
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