How to Break Out of the 'Female Entrepreneur' Trap • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Break Out of the 'Female Entrepreneur' Trap

#71

Post by tptacek » Tue, Feb 26, 2013, 9:00 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #66

tptacek wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who consciously choose to believe that women are inferior to men in software development, either due to misguided beliefs about genetics or intractable upbringing issues, aren't going to be persuaded by angry blog posts or anything else. They're already dug in to their positions. The people who benefit from alertness to privilege, culture, and bias issues are the ones running or helping influence the opera…

> Personally, I think the overt bias problem is so bad right now See, that's where we disagree. I have watched many more men get torn down in violent fashion, neglected, and excluded, than women. I think the overall tech culture sucks period, I don't think it's got nearly so much to do with sexism as you do. Like my example about the guy who mocks women speakers for being women -- and turns around and mocks another s…

Strong agree that addressing the overwork issues will go a long way towards mitigating the gender privilege issues as well.

However: very unlikely that we are ever going to resolve the overwork issues. Overwork is a part of Startuplandia's identity. In fact, overwork is a part of the American economic identity. Entrepreneurship is ostensibly easier in the US than most other places in the world because we don't push back on overwork until power imbalances start making the market break down.

Also, overwork mitigates gender bias and privilege issues, but doesn't resolve them. Yes, getting everyone home for dinner cuts back on the "do you have small children" questions. But it doesn't resolve the "where else am I going to find a date" problems, or the "you need to be less emotional" problems.

Re: How to Break Out of the 'Female Entrepreneur' Trap

#72

Post by danilocampos » Tue, Feb 26, 2013, 9:24 PM UTC

runarb wrote: post #70

danilocampos wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care about your small company – in the broader world of technology, lack of gender diversity is a problem. And you chose not to hire someone because she cared passionately about addressing that problem. That's fucked up, man. > We consider all applicants purely based on their merits, minus potential problems- fear of future litigation in this case. So you believe that if this person were terminated they would…

I don't care about your small company You may not care about his company, but the hiring manager should. Small companys are vulnerable so they have to be extremely careful when hiring. A bad higher can quickly become both expensive and stressful. Remember a small company have no professorial hr department and internal legal counsel that can help reduce this kinds of risk. I am not saying that this necessary is right,…

You're granting a premise I do not accept: that someone who cares about the cause of diversity in tech is therefore litigious. At best this is cowardice – the fear of someone willing to speak up for themselves. At worst it is misogyny – the conviction that a woman willing to speak up for herself and educated on the subject of diversity is ipso facto trouble.

Alternatively, it is a tacit admission of a sexist work environment or sexist behavior/perceptions from management.

Re: How to Break Out of the 'Female Entrepreneur' Trap

#73

Post by alinajaf » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 7:49 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #69

rdouble wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is tearing people down at work an American thing? I worked in Japan, and there was a culture of overwork, but it wasn't anything like Glengarry Glen Ross.

No, it's not an American thing, it's an ego thing, and America has lots of great people and also a lot of huge egos and not a lot of cultural taboos to reign them in. Some call this the "rockstar" or "brogrammer" problem, but you'll find it in any industry where people think they're hot shit. No doubt many people in Japan have large egos, but Japan also has institutionalized politeness.

> but Japan also has institutionalized politeness.

Careful. They also have an institutionalized social hierarchy, baked into the language and pretty much everywhere. It's expected that when you start at a new school or a new company that you will be treated like dirt by your 'superiors' on an ongoing basis.

There's a much higher tolerance for hazing and bullying in general. This leaves me skeptical that Japanese culture fosters an environment where people are nicer to each other than anywhere else.

Foreigners tend to get a free pass by being 'out of the system', unless their Japanese(ness) passes a certain threshold of fluency.