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Obama endorses required high school coding classes

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Re: Obama endorses required high school coding classes

#71

Post by kd0amg »

nhashem wrote: post #47

The words he used for his actual endorsement didn't scream "MANDATORY CODING" to me: "I want to make sure that (young people) know how to produce stuff using computers and not just consume stuff." Yes, it could mean coding. But people produce stuff on computers without coding all time. They produce stuff on Photoshop. They produce stuff on Excel. They produce stuff on Wordpress. It's becoming increasingly clear that…

They produce stuff on Excel.

If they're really producing stuff, there's a good chance it involves a bit of programming (and wasn't HN discussing this a few days ago?).

Re: Obama endorses required high school coding classes

#72

Post by w1ntermute »

dizzystar wrote: post #22
danilocampos wrote: post #16

Every time this is brought up, there's pearl clutching and handwringing from technical and non-technical folks alike. The fretting goes, "What about the people who don't like it? What about the people who have no aptitude for it?" And to this I ask: What makes programming so special that we should shield people without aptitude from learning it? Many have no aptitude for language – we still require english classes. M…

I don't understand this sentiment. Lots of people get through life just fine, and in fact are immensely successful in life, without knowing how to program. The fact is that the HS flavor of all of those classes are basically recite and regurgitate with a different name attached to it. The other difference is that there are different levels of classes for different levels of students, unless things have changed drasti…

> I really don't get why "computer skills" should be conflated with learning how to program completely.

Well I really don't get why "math skills" should be conflated with learning how to program completely. Why don't we just teach kids how to use a calculator?

Re: Obama endorses required high school coding classes

#74

Post by yoloprocro »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #61
nhashem wrote: post #47

The words he used for his actual endorsement didn't scream "MANDATORY CODING" to me: "I want to make sure that (young people) know how to produce stuff using computers and not just consume stuff." Yes, it could mean coding. But people produce stuff on computers without coding all time. They produce stuff on Photoshop. They produce stuff on Excel. They produce stuff on Wordpress. It's becoming increasingly clear that…

Nobody really debated health insurance in the US in 1980, because over 80% of Americans already received health insurance from their employer. Now it's barely two-thirds [0]. This is nonsensical, since a lot less than 80% of Americans even had an employer in the 80's (or even today). http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/EMRATIO The uninsured rate has actually remained roughly flat at 15%. http://commons.wikime…

Dude. You claim that "The uninsured rate has actually remained roughly flat at 15%." in response to nhashem's claim that there were fewer uninsured in 1980. But your graph only goes back to 1987!!

Geez.

Re: Obama endorses required high school coding classes

#75

Post by Nursie »

ryanmolden wrote: post #39
danilocampos wrote: post #16

Every time this is brought up, there's pearl clutching and handwringing from technical and non-technical folks alike. The fretting goes, "What about the people who don't like it? What about the people who have no aptitude for it?" And to this I ask: What makes programming so special that we should shield people without aptitude from learning it? Many have no aptitude for language – we still require english classes. M…

My view would be that people that are interested, the most likely to pursue it as a career, don't need a requirement to drive participation. Those forced to do it like they are forced to take are not really likely to learn anything terribly useful, or remember it. They may cram for a test and be able to pop out a half-working FizzBuzz implementation (You're hired!!), but I suspect a year or two down the line anything…

I got into computer programming comparatively late, because it wasn't taught that it was even a thing.

I didn't know it was a career option, an academic discipline, anything. Computers were just the thing this boring woman taught us to do spreadsheets on.

At home my old C64 was something that could be programmed, sure, but I was under the impression that was basically a toy. If I hadn't had a parent who were at least interested in this stuff I would have been completely unaware.

In fact worse than that, the boring 'computer proficiency' type courses actually put me off investigating anything to do with this area. Beyond that, with the proliferation of consumption devices, the actual machine and code part of the computer is more hidden than ever before.

Computers run more and more of everything, we owe it to our kids to at least tell them that they can be programmed, and give every kid at least a small intro into how to do it.

Re: Obama endorses required high school coding classes

#76

Post by Nursie »

EnderMB wrote: post #54
danilocampos wrote: post #16

Every time this is brought up, there's pearl clutching and handwringing from technical and non-technical folks alike. The fretting goes, "What about the people who don't like it? What about the people who have no aptitude for it?" And to this I ask: What makes programming so special that we should shield people without aptitude from learning it? Many have no aptitude for language – we still require english classes. M…

I believe the whole "all kids should code" bandwagon is over the top, mainly because to me coding at its most basic form is a skill that is acquired through equal parts of learning and experience, very similar to the likes of plumbing or car maintenance. My biggest issue is that most people for mandatory programming often believe that it will make kids "programmers" and will make them understand computers. For starte…

oops, ignore downvote, my mouse slipped. Yeah, totally the mouse's fault.

Re: Obama endorses required high school coding classes

#78

Post by yummyfajitas »

yoloprocro wrote: post #74
yummyfajitas wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody really debated health insurance in the US in 1980, because over 80% of Americans already received health insurance from their employer. Now it's barely two-thirds [0]. This is nonsensical, since a lot less than 80% of Americans even had an employer in the 80's (or even today). http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/EMRATIO The uninsured rate has actually remained roughly flat at 15%. http://commons.wikime…

Dude. You claim that "The uninsured rate has actually remained roughly flat at 15%." in response to nhashem's claim that there were fewer uninsured in 1980. But your graph only goes back to 1987!! Geez.

Nhashem is definitely wrong. It is impossible for 80% of Americans to receive something from their employer if 80% of Americans didn't even have an employer.

My graph does go back to 1987, because that's when the census started collecting data on health insurance. If nhashem has data he is free to post it. It's up to him to prove his claim, not on me to disprove an unsourced assertion.

Re: Obama endorses required high school coding classes

#79

Post by ryanmolden »

Nursie wrote: post #75
ryanmolden wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My view would be that people that are interested, the most likely to pursue it as a career, don't need a requirement to drive participation. Those forced to do it like they are forced to take are not really likely to learn anything terribly useful, or remember it. They may cram for a test and be able to pop out a half-working FizzBuzz implementation (You're hired!!), but I suspect a year or two down the line anything…

I got into computer programming comparatively late, because it wasn't taught that it was even a thing. I didn't know it was a career option, an academic discipline, anything. Computers were just the thing this boring woman taught us to do spreadsheets on. At home my old C64 was something that could be programmed, sure, but I was under the impression that was basically a toy. If I hadn't had a parent who were at least…

Yep, that why I said I supported the availability of the courses. My high school had none, as in 0, optional or not. My scepticism is around forcing kids to do things they are not interested in and the beneficial outcomes thereof. I took a lot of required classes in high school that I did not pay any attention in and could tell you basically nothing about them today. I think tech folks have a hard time understanding people's ambivalence around programming. I have a friend who is a geologist, spends his day, to the best of my understanding, studying rocks. That sounds terribly boring to me, but then again I am not a geologist, and my job probably sounds terribly boring to him. Forcing me to take that class in high school is unlikely to have changed that or given me much more of an appreciation of it.

Re: Obama endorses required high school coding classes

#80

Post by Nursie »

ryanmolden wrote: post #79
Nursie wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got into computer programming comparatively late, because it wasn't taught that it was even a thing. I didn't know it was a career option, an academic discipline, anything. Computers were just the thing this boring woman taught us to do spreadsheets on. At home my old C64 was something that could be programmed, sure, but I was under the impression that was basically a toy. If I hadn't had a parent who were at least…

Yep, that why I said I supported the availability of the courses. My high school had none, as in 0, optional or not. My scepticism is around forcing kids to do things they are not interested in and the beneficial outcomes thereof. I took a lot of required classes in high school that I did not pay any attention in and could tell you basically nothing about them today. I think tech folks have a hard time understanding…

So no compulsory classes at all in school? How is one to find out which subjects are stimulating and which are not without some introduction to them?

Whilst rocks are fascinating to some, I'm not sure the analogy holds as rocks are not (more than they ever have been before) becoming a part of everyone's everyday life.

If we were living in the stone ages I would be arguing for compulsory intro-to-rocks courses :)

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