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We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

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Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#71

Post by _delirium »

mikecane wrote: post #10

Twenty-five hours a week at what rate of pay? There are people working at Walmart and such who make in a week what I would make in a day or two in past years. I also did 60-80 hour weeks in my life (eejit that I was). With all the opposition towards a living wage (read: serf wages), I'll file this under the category that includes jetpacks and flying cars -- and I'd bet on those appearing first.

Well, the biologist quoted in the story is Danish, so may be starting from different norms. The de-facto minimum wage [1] is already around $18/hr, and would probably increase if the work-week were changed. That could perhaps be funded in part by putting less money towards retirement (current employer contribution is 17% of salary), since his proposal is to raise the retirement age considerably as well. Serf wages are a bit less of an issue in any case when that's the starting point.

[1] A bit complex: "de-facto" because Denmark has no statutory minimum wage. Nonetheless, a negotiated wage floor of a bit above 100 DKK/hr (~$18/hr) covers most workplaces. Denmark's labor system, partly driven by law and partly by cultural norms, makes heavy use of sector-wide bargaining agreements between large employer confederations and large cross-company unions. The whole process tends to be very consensus-oriented (strikes are rare), and reaches blanket agreements that apply sector-wide. Small mom-and-pop stores, freelancers, independent moving-van operators, etc. are the main exceptions, since they aren't part of one of the employer confederations that's party to those agreements.

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#72

Post by mistermann »

obstacle1 wrote: post #68
revscat wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says someone who obviously doesn't have a child support payment.

Yes, looks like he chose to not get married, not have a kid, and not get divorced.

That's a rather simple way of looking at it.

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#73

Post by obstacle1 »

Strshps1MoreTim wrote: post #66
learc83 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the studies that showed rapid mental decline in old age have been debunked. A 70 year old with no actual problems (e.g., Alzheimer's) is very likely to function perfectly fine mentally. A 2002 study (published in the Alzheimer's and Dementia Journal) found that ~91% of people 70 and older were capable of normal mental function.

Seriously? How many 70 year old people do you know? Let say you need to urgently take your child to a doctor and can choose between a 30 yo and a 70 yo. What would you do?

Parent cited an experiment that found 70 year-olds to have mental functioning on par with young people. Would you like to argue against the study's conclusion in a meaningful way? Or are you just pointing out that regardless of what is true, humans tend to act in a biased and ineffective manner?

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#74

Post by samstave »

michaelochurch wrote: post #42

25 hours is a good number for average people. I'd say 15-20, even. Ambitious or highly dedicated people will always work more than that, and that's a good thing. What they should have is a lot more freedom in how they spend that time-- working two jobs, one job and school, side projects. The problem is this bullshit conformist fiction in which everyone has to pretend to be ambitious (but only internally) and dedicate…

I think that the title should be: "It should only require 25 hours per week to make a comfortable living"

We should all put in the most amount of time to our lives and passions, but to maintain a comfortable life should not consume 100% of our available productive hours. (assuming productive hours == 8/day, 5 days/week)

If maintaining a living (comfortable or not) requires 100% of our productive work time (40 hours/week) then how are you not a slave to that subsistence lifestyle?

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#75

Post by bsenftner »

sliverstorm wrote: post #65
lotu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are allow to do what ever the fuck you want until you die just don't expect me to give you money for doing what ever the fuck you want. As I too am doing what every the fuck I want, which happens to include only giving money to people who do something useful for me.

This is a crucial part of the plan neo-hippies seem to forget

Yes, this is the specific issue separating liberals from conservatives in the US fucking A.

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#76

Post by [deleted] »

sliverstorm wrote: post #65
lotu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are allow to do what ever the fuck you want until you die just don't expect me to give you money for doing what ever the fuck you want. As I too am doing what every the fuck I want, which happens to include only giving money to people who do something useful for me.

This is a crucial part of the plan neo-hippies seem to forget

[deleted]

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#77

Post by necro »

learc83 wrote: post #36
danso wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mental acuity is very much a physical quality. Yes, there are 70 year olds who can think and mentally adapt exceptionally well, just as there are 70 year olds who can do one arm push-ups and live till 100. But it doesn't mean that 70 year old are just like 30 year olds, but with more experience.

Most of the studies that showed rapid mental decline in old age have been debunked. A 70 year old with no actual problems (e.g., Alzheimer's) is very likely to function perfectly fine mentally. A 2002 study (published in the Alzheimer's and Dementia Journal) found that ~91% of people 70 and older were capable of normal mental function.

If you look at a site/product like Lumosity.com, you can compare your results to other age groups. If you accept that the tests on Lumosity do test particular brain functions/areas then its clear to see that from the millions of user that take part, the performance average does decline with age. It's actually quite dramatic to see that a 40 year old that scores in the 90% in a test category, fits in at 50% among the 20 year olds.

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#78

Post by judgardner »

bluedanieru wrote: post #61
ekianjo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you have robots you will still need a massive workforce to produce them, to get the resources to produce them, to check them, to maintain them, to repair them, to program them, to update them and so on. Or maybe you believe in a state of singularity in which all of this will happen at the same time? :) Automation has already been happening in many industries, in case you have not noticed, and that did not res…

So what, then, do you think the purpose of technological advancement is ? Quality of life and wages have more-or-less flat-lined while productivity is way, way up. We are producing heaps more wealth per person than at any point in history, and yet we don't have much to show for it. Nowhere near proportional to the productivity increases, that's for certain. Don't misunderstand, I'm not a Luddite by any stretch and I'…

> Quality of life and wages have more-or-less flat-lined while productivity is way, way up.

Can you support this? Millions of people all over the world are being lifted out of poverty.

Here is a chart of per capita GNI for the past 20 years http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&#...

edi: linked wrong chart

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#79

Post by jdotjdot »

Claudus wrote: post #69

I left my job a year ago, and started doing remote work for a small company. Since then, I've worked between 15 to 25 hours a week. As a result: - I'm more rested and stress free - I get a lot more exercise and I eat healthier - I'm much more efficient and motivated in my work - My creativity and exploration into new fields has bloomed I used to put almost all of my effort into my work, with not enough time devoted t…

Absolutely agreed. I just did the opposite--quit remote freelancing to take on a full time job (this one with insane hours unfortunately, 14hour/day average)--and my level of stress and unhealth has skyrocketed. Autonomy and agency matter, and part of that is the ability to choose the amount of and timing of working hours that are best for you.

Re: We should only work 25 hours a week, argues professor

#80

Post by jdotjdot »

bsenftner wrote: post #75
sliverstorm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a crucial part of the plan neo-hippies seem to forget

Yes, this is the specific issue separating liberals from conservatives in the US fucking A.

I think you do that very real debate a disservice by minimizing the argument in this way. You know that's not the actual argument and it helps no one to propagate falsehoods.
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