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The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

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Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#71

Post by jacques_chester »

geolqued wrote: post #53
jacques_chester wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. People stay with other people overnight. 2. New buildings are unoccupied, sometimes for months. A more useful measure is rental vacancy rates. The Australian average is 2.3%, which is pretty close to "none" in practical terms.

Those rates are voluntarily self-reported by rental property managers - there's a fairly clear conflict of interest. According to the following Melbourne has a 5.9% vacancy rate. They use water usage data from the water companies for their analysis. ( http://www.earthsharing.org.au/wp-content/uploads/Philip_Soo...

What's the conflict of interest?

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#72

Post by jacques_chester »

lancewiggs wrote: post #68

Firstly - come to New Zealand. There is long list of ICT/Electronics and Communications roles, including all professional engineers, on the long Term Skills Shortage list. Additionally ICT and creative indistries are deemed long term growth areas. This means it's much easier to get into NZ - either for working or for immigration through our points system.[1] On the ground the answer is yes, we really need more devs a…

Australia also has a points system and we too have various software professions on a high-value list.

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/_pdf/sol-schedule1.pdf

Assessed by ... the ACS.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#73

Post by Schwolop »

beamso wrote: post #46
verelo wrote: post #40

I'd love to hear Matt's views on TAFE, i think accreditation has a very important place in our society (mainly because i got very sick of uneducated morons charging people for fixing computers, writing bad code...etc) Anyway, the fact that Matt is complaining about fees and then is happy to be associated with the Singularity University that chargs $25k for a course ( http://apply2013.singularityu.org/res/p/faq/ ) mak…

I believe Matt is strongly pro accreditation. http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/business-it/fierce-debate-is...

More so he's pro-theoretical grounding in a subject, because with the right background it's easy to get up to speed in the practicalities.

It's a bit unpleasant reading these articles (Barrie's and the original by Harper) now, as I currently work for Bigcommerce, and turned down an offer from Freelancer. Ironically, Freelancer offerred me about 40% less salary because at the time I had a theoretical background and almost zero practical experience.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#74

Post by jacques_chester »

daemin wrote: post #44
jacques_chester wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason they hammer on the Code of Ethics is because that's what other professions have. They need to show that there's some Code that could be made enforceable by legislation. It's part of the bigger plan to lever the ACS into the same role that the law societies or the AMA enjoy.

As far as software is concerned, until we have proper liability for defective software, ala Civil/Mechanical Engineering (where one signs their name to the design to certify safety and fit-for-purpose), we have little right to call ourselves (Software) Engineers, and hence no real reason for a professional accreditation/certification body. I also just looked at the website, and all of the membership levels look like…

Liability doesn't make sense for a lot of software. It's not like electricity where it's always potentially dangerous, civil where mistakes can cause death and dismemberment en masse and so on.

Basically software liability is just rolled up into the relevant market. Writing facebook games? It doesn't really matter to society if you get it a bit wrong. Writing pacemaker software? Then you're governed by medical device regulations.

Software's application to problems are so varied, so wide, that it's insensible to apply a single liability scheme to it.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#75

Post by femto »

lessnonymous wrote: post #63
femto wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why many houses now have GPOs (power points) in the ceiling space, and the light fittings are appliances plugged into the GPO, rather than permanently installed. Domestically, it is legal to work on things that are not permanently wired in, the main constraint being that you should follow good practice, so you don't kill someone. I'm surprised that a keen DIYer hasn't tried using a 3-phase 32A plug to plug t…

Oh wow .. I wonder if I could convince an electrician to put a massive plug and socket in my meter box ..

Unlikely :-) That final comment was tongue in cheek. It would make an interesting argument, but I suspect the house wiring would still be viewed as "fixed", despite the plug.

My gut feeling is that the law doesn't really achieve much, past a level of discouragement via FUD, since it's pretty well unenforceable. Electricians are supposed to write out "compliance certificates" for any work done, but I gather an awful lot don't. Even then, unless the work impacts the external connection, the only copy of the certificate resides with the home owner. I imagine an awful lot of people file it under the sofa, or in the garbage bin. As far as I know, there is no central record of a house's wiring configuration. Practically, the only way of telling that a job wasn't done by an electrician is that the job is really bad (and dangerous), or of a standard that significantly exceeds that achieved by a typical electrician.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#76

Post by ra »

jacques_chester wrote: post #12

I basically joined the ACS because it's there and I figured I ought to. They gave me a post-nominal: CT. If I want the next grade up -- CP -- I will need to take thousands of dollars of synergising-outside-the-box courses. Basically the ACS isn't really for software engineers. It's for middle management. I won't be renewing. (I might renew my ACM/IEEE memberships).

Totally. I've only once heard the ACS mentioned outside of the immigration context, and that was a senior manager in a bank asking why we (his best tech staff) weren't members.

I'm not sure if (Insert nationality here) Computer Societies are as irrelevant in other countries, but in Australia I'm pretty sure it serves no useful role other than in immigration.

So, if that's the case, they have no basis for qualification to determine the merit of an IT skills based residency application.

A self-proclaimed peak body.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#77

Post by aohtsab »

lessnonymous wrote: post #64
stephen_g wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No IT employer in Australia that I've communicated with has ever mentioned the ACS in regards to qualifications, not once -- I would be surprised if any even know it exists Same - I've been working as a software engineer in Australia for almost five years now, had never heard of them!

We know they exist. They're just irrelevant. It says a lot if you prefer to tell us you're an ACS member rather than that you write code for fun at home.

This is interesting to hear. I'm in the process of applying for an Australian visa (no CS degree). To get an independent visa, I need 2 more years of work experience, before I qualify to apply to have my skills tested by ACS in very specific (and almost esoteric) programming knowledge.

And this is only the first step to apply for an 'invitation to apply' for a visa.

What are my job prospects as a US software developer seeking to emigrate to Australia? How often do Australian companies sponsor visas for overseas workers?

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#78

Post by edgar_di »

Just payed the required $450 to have my Australian Master degree accredited by the ACS, that was only after I had spent $60.000+ in tuition fees in two years. only to see that the temporary residency application fee rose from $315 to $1250, (almost 400% increase in only one year)... :( some much money. I truly believe they have gone too far and soon they will start missing all the money from the international student and skilled migrants. (sorry for any grammar mistakes)

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#79

Post by beamso »

Schwolop wrote: post #73
beamso wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Matt is strongly pro accreditation. http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/business-it/fierce-debate-is...

More so he's pro-theoretical grounding in a subject, because with the right background it's easy to get up to speed in the practicalities. It's a bit unpleasant reading these articles (Barrie's and the original by Harper) now, as I currently work for Bigcommerce, and turned down an offer from Freelancer. Ironically, Freelancer offerred me about 40% less salary because at the time I had a theoretical background and al…

If you like, turn on 'showdead' in your HN preferences. Matt appears to have responded to your original post directly from a hellbanned account (teflonhook).

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#80

Post by ghshephard »

beilabs wrote: post #58

Here's my experience with the Australian Computer Society. Having studied abroad (Ireland), I was required to send in all of my exam results for my B.Sc, H.Dip & M.Sc. as well as a reference from each employer that I worked with in my field (Software Engineering). For the visa I was applying for at the time it required that I was certified by the ACS, have a minimum of 5 years experience. The process took 6 months fo…

Compare that to a Canadian coming into the United States as a "Computer Systems Analyst" - Show up at the airport 20 minutes earlier than you normally would, give them a one-page letter describing your employer, what you'll be doing, where you'll be working. Include a either a 2 year diploma + 2 (3?) years of work experience or a 4 year degree.

10 minutes later you have a Visa good for three years. Normally one expects lots of bureaucracy when dealing with the government, but the US/Canada have really streamlined their NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) down to next-to-no hoops to jump through.

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