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University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

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Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#71

Post by culi »

GlibMonkeyDeath wrote: post #49

This has the knock-on effect that it becomes impossible to excel in your first semester. Both of my kids worked hard and were prepared for college, and they did very well their first years, as they were used to the pace and level of information. It's something they are proud of, and it gave them confidence in their future lives. By eliminating the chance to excel, we make life worse for students who should be standin…

Kids can absolutely still excel. This just means their "excellence" isn't reduced to a 1-dimensional score. Excelling by writing a phenomenal essay that you still think about or creating a relationship with a professor that stays with you beyond the class is probably an even more meaningful way to excel than achieving some test score

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#73

Post by Hizonner »

estearum wrote: post #59
joezydeco wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you about the scam of 'honors' classes in today's high schools. They not doing anything more introspective or challenging. It's the same classwork thrown at them faster and without as much teaching support. Just more to grind out. But when you don't understand something? You're smart, you'll figure it out . In return you get inflated GPAs that get you into better colleges. But if you can't figure it out o…

Yeah definitely. But "can you grind" is legitimate selection criterion for making it into the upper echelons. Not an ideal one, but it's not illegitimate.

Legitimate in what way? It's obviously fucking stupid. Stupid criteria are not "legitimate".

You'd do just as well rolling dice, and it would be more legitimate because it wouldn't be pretending to do something it doesn't.

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#74

Post by timcobb »

evanelias wrote: post #68
timcobb wrote: post #25

Johns Hopkins has had this since forever

I was about to post the same; they adopted the pass/fail first semester policy in 1971. But then I was just horrified to read apparently they got rid of that system in 2017 [1], and now it's a normal letter grade?! Assuming that Hopkins still skews quite harshly on grading, that's an awful regression. [1] https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2016/05/university-to-...

Wow thanks for the update/correction

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#75

Post by InsideOutSanta »

estearum wrote: post #21
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

I wouldn't blame her but anyone who has to check out should just fail. This is about gunning for the elite/upper echelons of society. Doing that requires working like a dog not just for 2 years of high school and 4 years of college, but for likely several decades after. It's totally fine if not everyone can do it and that more people try than actually achieve it. It would be surprising if those weren't true, and engi…

I don't think training people to burn out by 35 is a good plan for anyone involved.

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#76

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Hizonner wrote: post #73
estearum wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah definitely. But "can you grind" is legitimate selection criterion for making it into the upper echelons. Not an ideal one, but it's not illegitimate.

Legitimate in what way? It's obviously fucking stupid. Stupid criteria are not "legitimate". You'd do just as well rolling dice, and it would be more legitimate because it wouldn't be pretending to do something it doesn't.

> Legitimate in what way?

Can you teach yourself, broadly. Out of all the filters we have in education, this one might be the most legitimate.

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#77

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Hizonner wrote: post #73
estearum wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah definitely. But "can you grind" is legitimate selection criterion for making it into the upper echelons. Not an ideal one, but it's not illegitimate.

Legitimate in what way? It's obviously fucking stupid. Stupid criteria are not "legitimate". You'd do just as well rolling dice, and it would be more legitimate because it wouldn't be pretending to do something it doesn't.

> Legitimate in what way?

Can you teach yourself, broadly. Out of all the filters we have in education, this one might be the most legitimate because it maps pretty closely to lifelong curiosity and learning.

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#78

Post by TiredOfLife »

joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

That is the same schedule people had 60 years ago

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#79

Post by s1artibartfast »

tptacek wrote: post #17

Having put two kids through college now: this makes sense. First semester grades are a shitshow anyways, and aren't especially predictive. The first semester at an R1 is utterly unlike any ordinary high school experience and a lot of what you're measuring is just kids getting their sea legs. What's the point? If it's causing drama, just get rid of it.

Do you see this as a self management issue or a course intensity issue.

My anecdotal experience with the University of California system was that course load was a step down from Highschool university prep (which wasn't that bad). Classes were easier than their AP counterparts, and most students who struggled had an issue with attending morning classes after late nights socializing.

My impression from family going through this process now is that the high school prep has only gotten more intense, so what is the gap? Has college gotten significantly harder in the last 20 years?

Which did you find to be the case?

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#80

Post by estearum »

Hizonner wrote: post #73
estearum wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah definitely. But "can you grind" is legitimate selection criterion for making it into the upper echelons. Not an ideal one, but it's not illegitimate.

Legitimate in what way? It's obviously fucking stupid. Stupid criteria are not "legitimate". You'd do just as well rolling dice, and it would be more legitimate because it wouldn't be pretending to do something it doesn't.

A lot of the jobs that university is supposed to train you for require you to work very very hard for a very very long time.
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