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Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

regen.co.uk

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Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#71

Post by Symbiote »

Scoundreller wrote: post #50
tempestn wrote: post #26

I assume plug-in batteries are considerably more workable in the UK on 240V, since they could charge and deploy at double the rate of a plug-in system here. Of course 240V plugs exist in North America, but they're generally only installed for dryers, ranges, and EV chargers, so people don't tend to have one just free.

What makes it easier on 240v systems is that your entire household is on the same “circuit”. If you’re on a 120v system, there’s a ~50/50 chance that your load is on the wrong side (except for 240v loads where you’ll imbalance things a tad but it should average out). Unless you’re in an apartment/conso and have 208v instead of 240v… dunno what happens then.

This is true for the British system, except for the largest houses (6+ bedrooms) where you'll have a three phase 415V supply.

Elsewhere in Europe it varies. Even small properties in Denmark and I think Germany have a three phase supply, my oven and stove use it directly.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#72

Post by vvbull »

perpetuallunch wrote: post #63
chris222 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia has been a great success for solar and battery storage. Your statement about a wealth transfer is putting no value on climate change or good air quality which benefits all.

No it hasn’t. What it has done is resulted in ridiculously high electricity prices, such that manufacturing anything in this country has become progressively less viable. The Net Zero story sold to Australians is, and always was always will be, complete bs, as evidenced by three facts: 1) It’s no longer the narrative, because “data centres” and 2) even when it was the narrative, it was always bs because Australia exp…

Australia emits 1-1.5% of greenhouse gases. Tripling that would absolutely impact global concentrations, especially over human time scales.

But agree, Australia exporting fossil fuels should be reflected. If you counted their export of fuels it would be closer to 5% of global emissions.

IMO, getting to zero would knock over a whole integer percent off the global goal, that's notable. And if you stopped exporting oil, we'd be 1/20th of the way to the goal already!

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#73

Post by vvbull »

xbmcuser wrote: post #24
slackfan wrote: post #2

This will lead to some new and exciting ways of starting a housefire.

The new sodium batteries are a lot safer than the lithium chemistries. And we already do have type of home batteries they are just called UPS systems. The real game changer will be when 3-5kwh plugin batteries fall below $150-200pkwh as at those prices batteries will make sense even for apartment owners/renters with no solar to use it to demand shift as time of day electricity prices get more common.

The problem isn't the battery catching fire, it's that you no longer have a circuit breaker between your appliances and the generator. Meaning you could, especially if you have several batteries, push load through wires in the wall in excess of what is rated for.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#74

Post by cam_l »

chris222 wrote: post #43
perpetuallunch wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly here in Australia. Electricity prices keep increasing, daily supply charge keeps increasing (this ones supposed to pay for the transmission network), while the solar feed-in tariff keeps decreasing. With the added stupidity that, obviously the sun works during the day and so do you. Now tax payers are forced to subsidies residential batteries as well as rooftop solar, which results in a wealth transfer from…

Australia has been a great success for solar and battery storage. Your statement about a wealth transfer is putting no value on climate change or good air quality which benefits all.

The issue in oz, is that energy investment by power companies is locked in with decades long contracts - raising power prices for everyone. But investment by individuals is subject to bait and switch.

Most people bought in with the expectation of a 12-15yr break-even, but the dropping feed in prices, and increase in grid costs have meant that break-even will probably never materialise.

Meanwhile, we keep paying excess costs for power companies to produce dirty power, and subsidise mining companies to sell off our gas and coal overseas, without even getting a benefit through taxes or royalties (or barely any).

Makes sense people are kind of pissed off about this (even if their reasoning is batshit-skynews-crazy).

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#75

Post by vvbull »

kibwen wrote: post #3
slackfan wrote: post #2

This will lead to some new and exciting ways of starting a housefire.

While the potential for fires shouldn't be dismissed, for batteries designed to be stationary rather than mobile (such as in an e-bike), you can use a chemistry optimized for stability rather than optimizing for compact weight and size.

It's not the batteries that are the concern. It's skipping the fuse box.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#76

Post by gamblor956 »

labcomputer wrote: post #51
bsder wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet in most locales it's illegal to disconnect from the grid. That's kind of ... required? Otherwise you have a bunch of people who are off the grid until the sun doesn't shine for a week and they run their batteries down and then they all try to connect simultaneously and collapse your grid. Most places I know of don't care if you never connect to the grid--you get your exemption and get on with life. However, onc…

Are you being deliberately obtuse? It is illegal to discontinue your relationship with your local electrical utility. As in, completely disconnect from the grid, cut the wires and never look back. As the previous poster said, charging for the “privilege” of connecting to the enormously-valuable grid would be a little bit defensible if having a connection were not legally required in most places.

You have it exactly backwards.

It is illegal for the utility to disconnect you for nonpayment. There is nothing requiring you to connect to the utility.

In CA, the requirement is that the building either be connected to the electric grid or demonstrate that it has a code-compliant alternative power system capable of meeting all of the buildings expected power needs. The issue is that most residential solar installations aren't capable of meeting all needs except possibly in the summer.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#77

Post by techbrovanguard »

perpetuallunch wrote: post #63
chris222 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia has been a great success for solar and battery storage. Your statement about a wealth transfer is putting no value on climate change or good air quality which benefits all.

No it hasn’t. What it has done is resulted in ridiculously high electricity prices, such that manufacturing anything in this country has become progressively less viable. The Net Zero story sold to Australians is, and always was always will be, complete bs, as evidenced by three facts: 1) It’s no longer the narrative, because “data centres” and 2) even when it was the narrative, it was always bs because Australia exp…

[flagged]

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#78

Post by gambiting »

satiric wrote: post #45

Plugs and sockets have the wrong gender for this. On the battery, you'd have a male plug with live 240v contacts, ready to short against anything, or anyone, that's conductive. This is the same reason why male-to-male extension cords are labeled "suicide cords".

Well, yes generally speaking. But the way this works with these plug in panels is that the micro inverter won't actually start delivering power to the grid in the absence of an energised plug in the first place. So just sitting there, the contacts are completely harmless. Obviously actual physical safety where you literally can't touch the contacts would be better.

Re: Plug-in solar is coming. Plug-in batteries should follow

#80

Post by hahahaa »

hparadiz wrote: post #67
labcomputer wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? It is illegal to discontinue your relationship with your local electrical utility. As in, completely disconnect from the grid, cut the wires and never look back. As the previous poster said, charging for the “privilege” of connecting to the enormously-valuable grid would be a little bit defensible if having a connection were not legally required in most places.

You know I can just not use that grid electricity, pay the absolute minimum, and then do everything off grid right?

Not according to this ancestor comment:

> Now they want solar panel owners to pay a surcharge for “connecting to the grid”, upwards of $100/month or more than my actual solar bill

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