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How do we stop vibe coding?

alexklos.ca

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Re: How do we stop vibe coding?

#71

Post by Havoc »

Hoodedcrow wrote: post #27
Havoc wrote: post #22

>Writing code by hand will always be around for bespoke and novel, complex work. That sentence is probably the key. There is zero chance of this stopping overall. Much like with artists 90% of the commercial stuff - copy/ads with generic guy in suit picture - will be AI that is "good enough". Less concerned about the code quality and more the labour market dynamics. If this goes anything like translation & creative s…

> Much like with artists 90% of the commercial stuff - copy/ads with generic guy in suit picture - will be AI that is "good enough". Eh, wouldn't be sure. Every time I see slop in such a context, it makes my day worse. And usually ensures I wouldn't go to that business, or at least unconsciously biases me against it.

Hope you're right! Think profit motive and general trend of enshitification will prevail here too though

Good enough is good enough

Re: How do we stop vibe coding?

#73

Post by azinman2 »

fidotron wrote: post #70
azinman2 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when you lead there’s a level of trust in the people who are going to implement. You may still have a high level view of what’s going on, but that’s different from sweating the details. It also is different from bottoms up building those details where consequences become clear in thought. I’ve noticed the pressure to keep velocity and move forward means I’m less sure of those details compared to before. LLMs are…

> But when you lead there’s a level of trust in the people who are going to implement. "Trust but verify". This is why you have QA processes, testing, checklists etc. All the sanity checks that got thrown away in the web tech rush pre-AI.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean you understand the details of implementation.

Re: How do we stop vibe coding?

#74

Post by Towaway69 »

boguscoder wrote: post #31
Towaway69 wrote: post #6

Howabout: just turn off AI. I scanned the article, never made it to the bottom, didn’t find the point the author was trying to make. Howabout just learning to code better as a human without using AI. Just like learning a craft. Just refuse to use AI. Not possible because of peer pressure? Well then stop worrying and continue to vibe. Either stop or stop complaining but don’t make excuses or write long articles that r…

It might not be so much of a peer pressure than “industry pressure” soon. You can keep hand-crafting it all you want as a hobby, but selling your crafts will be totally different matter

Industry consists of humans, humans can change this collectively. It's still peer pressure. If you don't resist, don't complain.

You won't be able to sell your craft, correct. That means keep your day job. If your day job requires vibe coding, then that becomes your day job. If you don't like it, quit. Live on the street and by your moral beliefs. Or else, sell your soul.

That's the stark choice that plenty of folks have faced and will face. There is nothing special about being a coder anymore - welcome to the factory floor.

Re: How do we stop vibe coding?

#75

Post by jpease »

Havoc wrote: post #22

>Writing code by hand will always be around for bespoke and novel, complex work. That sentence is probably the key. There is zero chance of this stopping overall. Much like with artists 90% of the commercial stuff - copy/ads with generic guy in suit picture - will be AI that is "good enough". Less concerned about the code quality and more the labour market dynamics. If this goes anything like translation & creative s…

I like your comparison. Stock photography is now pervasive, but that doesn’t mean use-specific photo shoots don’t happen any more.

Re: How do we stop vibe coding?

#76

Post by Towaway69 »

krater23 wrote: post #46
Towaway69 wrote: post #6

Howabout: just turn off AI. I scanned the article, never made it to the bottom, didn’t find the point the author was trying to make. Howabout just learning to code better as a human without using AI. Just like learning a craft. Just refuse to use AI. Not possible because of peer pressure? Well then stop worrying and continue to vibe. Either stop or stop complaining but don’t make excuses or write long articles that r…

The fear that I have that I end up in a team that don't care that I hand code my stuff and let their shit everywhere in the code, so that hand coding isn't possible anymore in a team. It's the same with frameworks. Building a webinterface with a framework is really easy, but the result is just bullshit compared to plain php. It looks good, but your load und wait time goes straight up.

Plenty of people don't care, they don't care because they don't like their boss, they don't like the company, they don't like the product, they don't like themselves. AI and vibe coding is just another excuse.

Professionalism and being a professional means accepting the situation and getting on with the job.

After all, that's why folks get paid: to forget the pain of being stuck in a shit job, eight hours a day, fives days a week (if not more), until they're 65 - 9 to 5, to 65 - 925265, I use that as my passcode just to remind myself.

Re: How do we stop vibe coding?

#77

Post by pibaker »

throwaway6977 wrote: post #4

Disagree with so many assertions put forth here. You don't _have_ to turn you brain off when coding with an LLM. It's not some intelligence dementor. If your brain turned off while you were vibe coding thats honestly just a you problem and I wish everyone would stop boogeymanning an obvious improvement in the ability to better yourself just because a lot of people don't choose the betterment route. I've never been mo…

This is like saying if you stop exercising just because you are driving everywhere then it is a you problem. On an individual level it may be useful advice, but on a societal level we see how it plays out — rising obesity rates and children shut in bedrooms with their screens. It turns out if you stop getting exercise from your daily routines, many people will just not get any exercise at all!

Of course you can make a conscious effort to keep using your brain while you vibe code. But if you have to consciously exercise your brain then it means the people, who are lazy on average, will just not do that and let their thinking deteriorate instead. We already see what happens if we let students "learn with AI." It turned out they would rather just let AI do their homework than become more informed about their course material. I don't see how software engineering will fair any better.

Re: How do we stop vibe coding?

#78

Post by [deleted] »

azinman2 wrote: post #73
fidotron wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But when you lead there’s a level of trust in the people who are going to implement. "Trust but verify". This is why you have QA processes, testing, checklists etc. All the sanity checks that got thrown away in the web tech rush pre-AI.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean you understand the details of implementation.

[deleted]

Re: How do we stop vibe coding?

#79

Post by fidotron »

azinman2 wrote: post #73
fidotron wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But when you lead there’s a level of trust in the people who are going to implement. "Trust but verify". This is why you have QA processes, testing, checklists etc. All the sanity checks that got thrown away in the web tech rush pre-AI.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean you understand the details of implementation.

You state this as if the only way you personally would manage this would be to craft each line yourself after deep contemplation, which may be true for you.

But it's not a universal at all. You have to apply engineering thinking to human and LLM organization, and part of the damage caused by scrum has been to ignore this entirely. How can you produce a system where you can bound the output to be what is understood? It must be possible because managers all over the earth do it all the time.

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