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Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

reuters.com

71–80 of 306 posts

Re: Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

#71
post #2

These alarms have been going off for a long time now. Everyone is already in too deep to admit that there’s a problem.

> Everyone is in too deep to now admit that there’s a problem I'm not sure how to square this with the dramatic improvement in LLM capabilities in the last 8-9 months. If anything, it makes the earlier investments look prescient?

> not sure how to square this with the dramatic improvement in LLM capabilities

A good tech demo doesn’t matter to the business if the products don’t become profitable at the scale the investment chased.

Re: Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

#72

Why does it raise alarm? Pretty sure all this spending was planned.

Serious investors look at balance sheets, less then what CEOs say. Elon Musk -- as an example-- says all kinds of things that don't really happen. Mark Zuckerberg is arguably less grandiose. When FB changed their name to Meta, said they were committed to the metaverse the stock didn't dump. When the really big investments in consumer VR hit Meta's balance sheet, there was a big drop. Think of it as the difference bet…

If a company’s value was completely representated within their balance sheet, you would just run a computer program and be done. The problem is 1) balance sheets can be manipulated in legal ways to support a specific narrative 2) growth is governed by vision + strategy + execution.

For example, Apple the year before the iPhone got launched isn’t an attractive investment. They’re a one hit wonder with the iPod saving them from bankruptcy and the market has been fully saturated. The year the iPhone gets released their balanced sheet hasn’t really changed.

Re: Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

#73
post #32
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they haven't. SPY YTD: 9.40%, GOOG YTD: 3.33% They have (massively) outperformed it in 2025 though.

Not sure where you got 3.33%, looks to me like GOOGL is +9.44% YTD while GOOG is +9.1%.

Might be related to the massive drop this morning. According to yahoo finance, YTD GOOG is +1.81% and GOOGL +2.33%

Re: Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the dramatic improvement in capabilities is not translating to a dramatic increase in revenue.

> not translating to a dramatic increase in revenue. Completely false. AI and AI related revenues are growing exponentially .

I know it's easy to forget, and InsideOutSanta kind of anchored the conversation on "revenue", but profit is ultimately what matters. Back when Silicon Valley was merely insane rather than bat-guano crazy insane, it was commonly observed that it's not hard to build a business around selling a dollar for 95 cents. The point being that it doesn't necessarily mean much when you have a business doing that, because of course the demand will be insane. It doesn't mean you have a viable business. You don't know you have a viable business until you transition to selling a dollar for $1.03. Many a VC-funded business that looked successful, even wildly successful, has run aground on that transition, or at least, suddenly stopped looking so wildly successful.

If AI-related expenses are also growing exponentially, and they are growing exponentially faster, it doesn't matter that revenue is growing exponentially.

The AI funding has also now absolutely baked in exponential growth of expenses, because that's how debt works. A slow exponential, hopefully, but an exponential none-the-less.

Something Hacker News needs to be periodically reminded of is that we are the field getting the most out of AI, and it's not even close. That's great for us. But the stocks aren't priced for "a pretty nice coding tool". They're priced for every field in the world getting even more value out of this than our field is getting now. That is, frankly, not happening anywhere near fast enough for the spending and stock valuations. When you don't have all the engineering guardrails that are present in software engineering [1], suddenly the AI is, ahem, exponentially less useful.

As I say in that post, watch your AI actually doing something, even the frontier models. Watch the thinking traces. Watch how many times they bang into a guardrail of some sort; a failing test, a failing compile, a linter failure, a bash script that doesn't work, all those things. How much value would you get out of an AI coding assistant if the first time it banged into a guard rail it was done and you had to stop using it for that task? How much value would you get out of an AI coding assistant if instead it silently failed and just proceeded forward with errors that you lack the infrastructure to easily detect? In the first case, it would be fairly modest, almost certainly not worth the money, and in the second, it would be worth paying to not use.

Even in our field, while the rate of code output has increased substantially, the rate of value generation increase has been quite a bit more modest. I have observed, and heard from a number of other places, that while my own output has increased somewhat we still generally can't plan on being able to work with other teams at much faster a rate than we used to.

There's a viable business here but I can't see how all these companies expect to be returning all this revenue in any financially sensible period of time. They're all spending like if only they spend enough they can own about %900 of the market in three years. They can't all do that, even accounting for "AI makes the market bigger".

And they're wildly vulnerable to some new solution coming out that obsoletes all this spending, like an ASIC that starts running a popular model directly (especially if model capabilities plateau), meaning that all this nVidia GPU spending is so much dead silicon. Or someone comes out with a much more efficient way to train models. There has to be some insight we're missing; humans do not learn what they do by having the entire contents of the Internet poured through their head hundreds of times over. We are far more efficient with our training data. What if someone works out a solution to that and we don't need to spend billions on GPUs but only millions? The whole spending proposition could collapse overnight and the companies that suddenly have three orders of magnitude too much hardware and the debt to match would be up a creek without a paddle.

[1]: https://jerf.org/iri/post/2026/programming_is_engineering/

Re: Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

#75
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I've seen what I would call dramatic improvement since maybe GPT4? Sure, things got better. But I'd call it iterative more than revolutionary. I still wouldn't trust any of the models to do anything meaningful unattended. They all still do dumb shit all the time. Plus, even if they were genuinely dramatically better, the businesses sure as hell aren't. They're burning money left and right, they have no m…

[flagged]

They are! Coincidentally, there's been a precipitous decline in software quality and reliability the last few years.

Re: Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

#76
post #2

These alarms have been going off for a long time now. Everyone is already in too deep to admit that there’s a problem.

I see eventuality here as job cuts or salary cuts.

Don't think that day is far when "software people" are paid as if they were taxi drivers.

Re: Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably at some point you need a measurable productivity return yea? Maybe organizations are not built around skill and aptitude so much as liability, which LLMs cannot provide barring (very welcome and also very unlikely) legislation in the US.

> Presumably at some point you need a measurable productivity return yea? At what point? This technology is brand new . Did you think we were going to double productivity in 3 years? Capacity is being built. It's hard to build data centres, there are no chips, there is no memory, it's hard to get talent, we don't have the energy to power the facilities. No one knows where this is going. We are scratching the surface.…

"We would be profitable if we had the resources but we don't," isn't the smackdown argument you seem to believe it is.

There used to be a thing where successful tech companies were profitable right out of the gate, and very successful companies doubled those profits for years, and companies who bought and used the tech could point to clear, actioned, benefits and cost savings.

Now it's all "This will be really, really profitable one day, probably, if the omens align and we can deal with all of the problems."

Re: Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

#78
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I've seen what I would call dramatic improvement since maybe GPT4? Sure, things got better. But I'd call it iterative more than revolutionary. I still wouldn't trust any of the models to do anything meaningful unattended. They all still do dumb shit all the time. Plus, even if they were genuinely dramatically better, the businesses sure as hell aren't. They're burning money left and right, they have no m…

> I'm not sure I've seen what I would call dramatic improvement since maybe GPT4? LLM conversations online are so weird. Whenever I read things like this it’s like I’m living in a different world than the other person. GPT4 was almost useless compared to what we have available today.

I mostly use anthropic models, but there was a big step function when claude code came out, and it’s been incremental or a plateau since then.

Opus 4.6 and 4.8 are basically indistinguishable from Fable and Sonnet 5. 4.7 was a hot mess. The guardrails on 4.8 and 5.0 make them worse than 4.6 for many tasks. So, even if Fable is theoretically better, refusals/downgrades make it a worse product in practice. Who cares if it outperforms on 1-2% of real world tasks if 5-10% of tasks are blocked?

I’d bet most people could be downgraded to a 12 month old frontier model, and not notice for a week or so.

Anthropic’s big problem is that open weight models are 0-6 months behind. So, their product is commoditized and margins are never going to be good.

Re: Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the dramatic improvement in capabilities is not translating to a dramatic increase in revenue.

> not translating to a dramatic increase in revenue. Completely false. AI and AI related revenues are growing exponentially .

...source?

Please try and provide one for such strong claims.

Re: Alphabet's cash burn raises alarm for Big Tech as AI spending climbs

#80
Basically all of Big Tech is betting it all on Red that this whole AI business pays off before they end up losing everything. And I get it, it would be unwise to stay behind and ignore what could very easily turn out to be humanity's greatest invention since pizza. But still, is there seriously no other way to go about it instead of collectively running head first, hands behind at a breakneck pace, while risking the complete collapse of ... well, everything? I suppose not, especially considering it's a technology with potentially massive military and social impact on a global scale, or even beyond that if we're being particularly delusional. Though one has to wonder who will end up paying the tab, and I think that we all know the answer to that.
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