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Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

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Re: Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

#71

Post by [deleted] »

bonsai_spool wrote: post #24
qup wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not DEI. When you're short on nurses, trying to invite men isn't DEI. If we had plenty of qualified nurses, but hospitals made quotas saying that 20% of nurses must be men, that would be DEI. It's replacing merit (let me sort for "best available nurse" and hire that person) with another attribute (let me sort for "male nurse," then sort for "best available nurse in the male group", and hire that person). If you…

What does the ‘I’ stand for in DEI? Say a man thinks nursing is for women and not for men. Say an employer wants more nurses irrespective of sex. Is that employer engaging in DEI if they spend more money on male re-education than on recruiting women?

[deleted]

Re: Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

#72

Post by orwin »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #18
bryanlarsen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think schools have been courting male teachers for quite a while now. And according to the article, this courting of male nurses has also been going on for many years.

Yep, can confirm. I was aggressively recruited for education as a math undergrad. There was no way that was going to happen, too many people view male teachers as inherently predatory.

> too many people view male teachers as inherently predatory.

I absolutely hate this. It's the same in every field in contact with kids. When I was a youth camp counsellor, a director told me after stuff happened with other counsellors "at least now, I'm sure you are not a predator" (translation here). I know it was a joke, but the place and the way makes are sometimes seen in the field genuinely hit me hard. I remember the sentence and the director face as she said it better than the other counsellors and the overall situation.

Re: Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

#73

Post by qup »

bonsai_spool wrote: post #24
qup wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not DEI. When you're short on nurses, trying to invite men isn't DEI. If we had plenty of qualified nurses, but hospitals made quotas saying that 20% of nurses must be men, that would be DEI. It's replacing merit (let me sort for "best available nurse" and hire that person) with another attribute (let me sort for "male nurse," then sort for "best available nurse in the male group", and hire that person). If you…

What does the ‘I’ stand for in DEI? Say a man thinks nursing is for women and not for men. Say an employer wants more nurses irrespective of sex. Is that employer engaging in DEI if they spend more money on male re-education than on recruiting women?

Depends on why they're spending it that way, not whether they're spending it that way.

The problem is the "male re-education" and "recruiting women."

They should just have a recruiting budget and a re-education budget. There should be a way to determine the best spend of the money. Maybe one method of generating a nurse is cheaper, or produces a better quality employee. When you try to have the process generate "at least this percentage of [male/brown/etc] people" instead of just generate the most/best candidates, then you have DEI. The process doesn't produce the most, or best quality employees --it works to force an outcome that is unrelated to employee skill or best business practices.

Re: Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

#74

Post by economistbob »

ceejayoz wrote: post #66
economistbob wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lot of assumptions in that statement which may not be scientifically valid. Even if, the patient's life should not outweigh the medico's own. In a case where a medico choose that, they must choose to risk their life for a patient. The choice over ones life span ought not to rest with one's pay master as it does in American medicine.

> There are lot of assumptions in that statement which may not be scientifically valid. Uh huh. > Even if, the patient's life should not outweigh the medico's own. Their desire not to get a minor vaccination should not outweigh the survival of the person under their care.

That is a straw man.

Re: Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

#75

Post by ryathal »

Nursing has become a pretty bad job in modern times, and being a male nurse tends to have more downsides. Exploitation is high in the nursing field, support staff are non-existent, mandatory overtime is common, patient ratios are trending up, break times are non-existent in some areas, being assaulted is increasingly common. Being a male also tends to mean you are expected to do the harder or heavy lifting parts the majority of the time in addition to all the other problems the profession has.

Re: Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

#76

Post by bbradley406 »

tracker1 wrote: post #53
yoyohello13 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m actually taking prerequisites at a local cc to start an accelerated BS in nursing. Feels like one of the few jobs that’s still going to be in demand.

There's also plumbing, a/c and electrical work... general repairman stuff, etc. Assuming you're okay working hands on and potentially in more stressful environments (weather). I'm largely with Mike Rowe on this one... it's been a shame the level that people have not been directed into more vocational fields and the level of skilled labor shortages as a result. Higher education has largely been self-serving, not commu…

Unless there is an actual effort to pay people well for this work, the shortage is a myth and you are spreading a false belief. Mike Rowe is the last person you should be listening to about hard work and trade jobs. He's correct about people getting pushed into college, but he is wrong for trying to make trade work glamorous and manly on TV.

I'm in a skilled trade and see lots of dudes getting their bodies shredded (with no insurance) for $40k a year (in HCOL). Why do that when pushing paperwork or bartending gets you the same money? Yes there certainly are outstanding individuals that can run their own small company and do well, but they probably could do just as well in another field anyway.

As long as the pay stays the same, companies are just gonna gouge harder. You'll be forced to buy worse work for more money since they can't keep good employees on. If you want to actually fix things talk to your GC's and subs heart to heart about paying their guys better

Re: Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

#77

Post by yoyohello13 »

orwin wrote: post #72
TimorousBestie wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, can confirm. I was aggressively recruited for education as a math undergrad. There was no way that was going to happen, too many people view male teachers as inherently predatory.

> too many people view male teachers as inherently predatory. I absolutely hate this. It's the same in every field in contact with kids. When I was a youth camp counsellor, a director told me after stuff happened with other counsellors "at least now, I'm sure you are not a predator" (translation here). I know it was a joke, but the place and the way makes are sometimes seen in the field genuinely hit me hard. I remem…

Kind of weird you guys are being down-voted. This is absolutely true. I volunteered at the local Boys and Girls club for years and there was always a vibe when any new person or parent came in. Over 30 male working with kids always raises eyebrows. It sucks but it's also reality.

Re: Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

#78

Post by nekusar »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #67
engeljohnb wrote: post #46

I'm a male healthcare worker (cardiac sonographer), and even though there are a lot more women, there were never any barriers for me because of my gender. If there's a shortage, it's because employers need to pay more, same as every other labor "shortage." Nursing is in demand everywhere, and not everyone has what it takes to do their work. If they could be making more money somewhere else, that's where they'll go. A…

It's kind of wild that our system seems to be specifically set up to exploit people who care. Sociopath who views people as just a barrier to their goals? Promotion to CEO, billion dollar bonus. Millions of tax dollars spent to bail you out of trouble. Empathetic person willing to literally put your body on the line for other? Shit pay, shit hours, one unlucky break away from destitution. What's even crazier is the m…

> It's kind of wild that our system seems to be specifically set up to exploit people who care.

Not at all. Caring has traditionally been woman pursuits. And you can underpay cause they care.

There's a ton of academic studies under the terms of "emotional labor". Retail is emotional labor. Nursing. Education, childcare, health care, social work, hospitality, media, advocacy, aviation.

And those jobs pay trash precisely because people (read: women) care. So they're exploitable.

The jobs that you exploit others and forced not to care pay the most.

Re: Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

#79

Post by yoyohello13 »

nekusar wrote: post #78
yoyohello13 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of wild that our system seems to be specifically set up to exploit people who care. Sociopath who views people as just a barrier to their goals? Promotion to CEO, billion dollar bonus. Millions of tax dollars spent to bail you out of trouble. Empathetic person willing to literally put your body on the line for other? Shit pay, shit hours, one unlucky break away from destitution. What's even crazier is the m…

> It's kind of wild that our system seems to be specifically set up to exploit people who care. Not at all. Caring has traditionally been woman pursuits. And you can underpay cause they care. There's a ton of academic studies under the terms of "emotional labor". Retail is emotional labor. Nursing. Education, childcare, health care, social work, hospitality, media, advocacy, aviation. And those jobs pay trash precise…

Not sure why you said 'Not at all'. Your comment seems to corroborate exactly what I said. People who don't care are specifically rewarded more than people who do and it's by design.

Re: Amid nurse shortage, a university rolls out the welcome mat for men

#80

Post by nekusar »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #79
nekusar wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's kind of wild that our system seems to be specifically set up to exploit people who care. Not at all. Caring has traditionally been woman pursuits. And you can underpay cause they care. There's a ton of academic studies under the terms of "emotional labor". Retail is emotional labor. Nursing. Education, childcare, health care, social work, hospitality, media, advocacy, aviation. And those jobs pay trash precise…

Not sure why you said 'Not at all'. Your comment seems to corroborate exactly what I said. People who don't care are specifically rewarded more than people who do and it's by design.

Its not at all wild.

The capitalists set the system up. Capitalism exploits by its nature. So finding people who are more easily exploitable makes a great deal of capitalist sense. That's how and why this shit was set up.

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