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Do we just want slaves?

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Re: Do we just want slaves?

#71

Post by spwa4 »

vitalyan8184 wrote: post #50
skippyfish wrote: post #6

The thesis of the article is spot on. The title is weird - I don't know what's the point of bringing such an emotionally charged term into it. Unless your point is that LLMs are sentient creatures capable of suffering, but I don't think that's what the author is trying to say. I agree with the author that almost everyone wants to use AI to do the things they have no interest in and don't want to pay someone else to d…

[dead]

Yeah you'd think they'd focus on the noise pollution ... that only exists because these data centers are saving a little bit of money on sound isolation. Now THAT is a necessary fight, and it really, really should be fixed because it's a real problem.

Re: Do we just want slaves?

#72

Post by janpeuker »

skippyfish wrote: post #6

The thesis of the article is spot on. The title is weird - I don't know what's the point of bringing such an emotionally charged term into it. Unless your point is that LLMs are sentient creatures capable of suffering, but I don't think that's what the author is trying to say. I agree with the author that almost everyone wants to use AI to do the things they have no interest in and don't want to pay someone else to d…

I don't think it's a paradox at all and it might also be a hint why the word is used in the title: Using AI makes you _want slaves_, and I think it creates a culture of treating people who do the boring work the same way. For me that's what Enshittification and The Annoyance Economy mean: The mindset that because I optimize better than you, I now own you - and people notice that disdain not only against themselves, but when being forced to use it against their best intentions against others, too (e.g. yelling at chatbots doesn't make you feel good).

Re: Do we just want slaves?

#73

Post by jdub »

ButlerianJihad wrote: post #31

I grew up understanding that the institution of chattel slavery was fundamentally unjust and cruel in denying human dignity and equality of people. A few years ago, I began to see the "labor supply" issues of slavery, and how the South was basically an economic powerhouse fueled chiefly by the labor of its enslaved people--so how do you reconcile that after the fact? How does a Union of freemen compete with that? And…

you don't deserve your user name

Re: Do we just want slaves?

#74

Post by KabukiOrigin »

georgemcbay wrote: post #40
skippyfish wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly. I think the US is a lot more exposed to the apocalyptic narratives from the bosses of AI labs, who sort of painted themselves into that corner in the pursuit of valuations.

Roughly speaking and anecdotally I get the sense that the AI hate is by far strongest in the US. Europe seems to be somewhat balanced (some hate, some optimism). And Asia seems to be the most optimistic about it. > I think the US is a lot more exposed to the apocalyptic narratives from the bosses of AI labs, who sort of painted themselves into that corner in the pursuit of valuations. I'm sure that narrative plays in…

So this. If you're in a society where a response to "AI took my job" can be "I will have access to training for a different job and I won't starve, be homeless or die of something curable while I do it", you're likely to feel this is a disruptive change.

If none of those things are true for you it's going to feel apocalyptic and existential.

Related is probably cultural bias to "evil" or dangerous technology, particularly thinking machines, vs. benevolent partners, assistants or tools.

Re: Do we just want slaves?

#75

Post by foo42 »

Perhaps political candidate Count Binface here in the UK should add to his "I'll lower _your_ taxes and raise _everyone elses_" policy with "I'll protect _your_ job and automate _everyone elses_"

Re: Do we just want slaves?

#76

Post by yunwal »

cynicalsecurity wrote: post #58
singingtoday wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the ai hate a global or western thing? A friend of mine in Japan says people don't hate it there. Maybe she's just in a bubble?

The anti-AI hysteria comes predominantly from the American left, as AI is going to hugely undermine their power. American right are excited - they are finally going to get rid of their longtime annoying nemesis. It doesn't really change anything for Europeans and I have no idea what Asians think. I can imagine, AI is actually going to hit Asia the most, eliminating all the cheap offshore workforce. I can imagine Indi…

> American left, as AI is going to hugely undermine their power

Can you explain this line of reasoning to me. My own intuition tells me that as AI automates away jobs, the center will be more open to government programs that create jobs, provide a social safety net, and allow people to retrain.

Why is it you think the right gains power?

Re: Do we just want slaves?

#77

Post by nh23423fefe »

m4xp wrote: post #67
singingtoday wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the ai hate a global or western thing? A friend of mine in Japan says people don't hate it there. Maybe she's just in a bubble?

It's really hard not to hate ai, You have so many reason - destruction of hardware market - democratization of skill (to the lower common denominator) - tech bros literally stealing and scamming with no repercussion And so much more...

Those aren't good reasons at all.

Re: Do we just want slaves?

#78

Post by markstock »

singingtoday wrote: post #11
skippyfish wrote: post #6

The thesis of the article is spot on. The title is weird - I don't know what's the point of bringing such an emotionally charged term into it. Unless your point is that LLMs are sentient creatures capable of suffering, but I don't think that's what the author is trying to say. I agree with the author that almost everyone wants to use AI to do the things they have no interest in and don't want to pay someone else to d…

Is the ai hate a global or western thing? A friend of mine in Japan says people don't hate it there. Maybe she's just in a bubble?

There have been polls. The AI hate thing is almost exclusively a USA thing.

Re: Do we just want slaves?

#79

Post by IAmBroom »

satisfice wrote: post #52
Animats wrote: post #45

Some people do. Here's a bill going through the Ohio legislature, HB 469.[1] Excerpts: Sec. 1357.02. (A) Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, AI systems are declared to be nonsentient entities for all purposes under the laws of this state. No AI system shall be granted the status of person or any form of legal personhood, nor be considered to possess consciousness, self-awareness, or similar traits of livin…

That’s not a call for slavery. Because only people can be slaves. We don’t need legislation to declare that a solid iron bar is not your mommy, but somehow not everyone is clear that LLMs are not people, and these immortal amoral simulations cannot be allowed to be confused with people.

Slaves in the US were legally declared non-people.

Re: Do we just want slaves?

#80

Post by JohnFen »

vitalyan8184 wrote: post #68
brador wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 in 400 buckets of water. And it’s a non uniform tightly clustered spread. That’s a lot.

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> they're being built where water is cheap. water is cheap where it's abundant.

Certainly not all of them. Several AI data centers in my state have been built near small communities where water is scarce. Those communities believed the companies building them about how the water impact would be limited and wouldn't result in a serious impact.

That has turned out not to be the case. The water usage of these centers has been terrible and is increasing, and the cost of trying to find and develop alternate water sources (this means trucking water in) is being placed squarely on the shoulders of the community -- and these are small towns without a great deal of financial resources.

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