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When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

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Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#71

Post by sokoloff »

bpodgursky wrote: post #18
hack1312 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it’s your house and land being stolen we’ll see how you feel

Are you under the impression people are not compensated by eminent domain? In fact, a huge portion of the sentimental press stores over eminent domain are attempts by homeowners not to cancel the project, but to increase the payouts. Often the homeowners would be quite sad to see the project cancelled, they just want to milk the settlement via litigation.

I am under the impression that they are not compensated correctly when their land is taken.

I own the land that I do because I value it more than any other buyer/current bidder. (If that weren’t true, I’d sell it to the higher bidder.)

If, instead of bidding an attractive price for my land like an ordinary buyer, you win a court case or political process that says you can force me to sell my land at a “fair market value”, that previous point establishes that I’m being forced to take a loss, as I am being forced to accept a price lower than my reservation price.

At the same time, eminent domain must exist in order to let continuous projects like power lines and highways be built. I just think that 150% or 200% of what is currently called “fair market value” is a better reference price than 100% of it.

The taking of land against the owner’s will should come at a premium, but that premium should be capped rather than unbounded.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#72

Post by giantg2 »

bob1029 wrote: post #15
usrusr wrote: post #4

Misleading title: they are using eminent domain to seize land for power lines to data centers. (emphasis mine) This is still quite debatable, but so much less so than the implied accusation that they would somehow sell out their privileges as subcontractors for the data centers themselves.

To be even more nuanced, the land is not typically taken entirely. The more typical solution is an easement with compensation for the land owner to cover the reduction in utility. Transmission lines are pretty harmless when considering things that could be built instead. Zero emissions, silent, no illumination, etc.

These are not silent nor zero emission. These do emit large electromagnetic fields that interfere with some electronics. There are also some studies that show higher risk of childhood leukemia and potentially negative affects to sensitive groups such as people with neurodiverse conditions. They also tend to hum and crackle. At times you will have helicopters doing line work too.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#73

Post by sokoloff »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #57
pegasus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same. When those large datacenter projects were being considered, the necessity for building new power lines should have been included in the ask. Instead they built the centers, then "notice" the system is straining and stick the public with the bill and local communities with the consequences. Classic "privatize profits and socialize risks".

Every consumer of electricity had to have power lines installed to their building in order to get electricity. They all then pay in proportion to how much electricity they use. The electric bill of a data center is large . It already includes the cost of building and maintaining power lines and generating power and everything else, because they all do, since that's what electric bills pay for. In general the problem…

Isn’t the entire point of this power line project to “upgrade the infrastructure to meet the new demand”?

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#75

Post by _trampeltier »

mschuster91 wrote: post #51
9dev wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why not build data centers where the energy is?

Latency.

Latency for interaction with AI? For something the user use browsers and electron apps. A ping goes around the whole world before your pressed key is visible on the screen.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#76

Post by thejokeisonme »

giantg2 wrote: post #72
bob1029 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be even more nuanced, the land is not typically taken entirely. The more typical solution is an easement with compensation for the land owner to cover the reduction in utility. Transmission lines are pretty harmless when considering things that could be built instead. Zero emissions, silent, no illumination, etc.

These are not silent nor zero emission. These do emit large electromagnetic fields that interfere with some electronics. There are also some studies that show higher risk of childhood leukemia and potentially negative affects to sensitive groups such as people with neurodiverse conditions. They also tend to hum and crackle. At times you will have helicopters doing line work too.

Having zero knowledge about these studies I have high credence they are baloney.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#77

Post by giantg2 »

thejokeisonme wrote: post #76
giantg2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not silent nor zero emission. These do emit large electromagnetic fields that interfere with some electronics. There are also some studies that show higher risk of childhood leukemia and potentially negative affects to sensitive groups such as people with neurodiverse conditions. They also tend to hum and crackle. At times you will have helicopters doing line work too.

Having zero knowledge about these studies I have high credence they are baloney.

Which ones - the ones that show an association or the ones that don't?

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#78

Post by inigyou »

api wrote: post #68
mschuster91 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latency.

Doesn’t matter for training or most AI use cases. We are talking tens of ms latency here. I’m gonna guess availability of employees may matter more.

Once built, the DC has like, ten employees. Nine security guards and a part-time on-site technician.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#79

Post by inigyou »

johndough wrote: post #36
bob1029 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be even more nuanced, the land is not typically taken entirely. The more typical solution is an easement with compensation for the land owner to cover the reduction in utility. Transmission lines are pretty harmless when considering things that could be built instead. Zero emissions, silent, no illumination, etc.

> Zero emissions, silent, no illumination, etc. Mostly silent. High voltage transmission lines may have a low-frequency hum. You have to stand directly under them to hear it though.

Which you would, if they were crossing over your house. Probably not worse than many other mundane things though.

Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?

#80

Post by inigyou »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #59
left-struck wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically I just thought the leukaemia claim is quite an extraordinary claim, which requires extraordinary evidence if you’re trying to convince a sensible person of your claim. I know a thing or two about rf, emf and electricity in general and I don’t see why or how these hv wires would cause cancer, or if they did why would it be specifically leukaemia. I’m fully aware though that before we knew about nuclear radia…

> I know a thing or two about rf, emf and electricity in general and I don’t see why or how these hv wires would cause cancer, or if they did why would it be specifically leukaemia. Probably the same theory for how a microwave cooks food. > I’ve also anecdotally noticed that people are concerned about many things where there is like very marginal evidence that maybe this is slightly bad for you but then regularly eng…

Tell me how you think a microwave cooks food?
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