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CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

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Re: CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

#71

Post by ButlerianJihad »

jeffbee wrote: post #56
OutOfHere wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't understand until you get much older, your joints start to hurt, and your sleep becomes miserable. When you try collagen then in a sufficient amount, e.g. 15g/day, only then might you understand.

Collagen for osteoarthritis is well-supported by research. I was responding to the statement about connective tissues.

> osteoarthritis

This is, nine times out of ten, a bullshit diagnosis, and here is why.

Providers have systematically and knowingly misidentified arthrosis and other degenerative diseases. Because guess what? You can medicate and relieve inflammation, but -osis is not curable and very difficult to heal.

So rather than tell the truth to elderly patients with degenerating bodies, the providers lie and say there is inflammation. Then the providers recommend a panacea, literally, that matches that bullshit diagnosis, and the arthrosis patients go on their merry way with “arthritis” pills in their pockets.

It is an extreme disservice to suffering people, but that is how capitalism and health care work.

Re: CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

#72

Post by [deleted] »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #61
jeffbee wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same thing anyone else can do: bomb an oil refinery.

Which will do nothing about demand from your fellow citizens to consumer refined oil products such as gasoline, so another refinery will be built and they will carry on as usual. As long as it's free for individuals to pollute, we are going to demand polluting products & services without regard for the environment. The solution is to price externalities, but your fellow citizens will vote out anyone who suggests thos…

[deleted]

Re: CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

#73

Post by OutOfHere »

bottlepalm wrote: post #65

Historically levels were around 250 and now they're generally over 450. I wonder if I would feel a cognitive boost or just plain better in general if I were breathing 250. Do they sell home CO2 scrubbers? I can easily increase the CO2 in a room, but how about decreasing it?

You can form a simple CO2 scrubber by buying colorized bulk soda lime, putting it in a HEPA filter bag, and running air through it, but it's very expensive. It'll probably cost $100 a day. Also, you'll still be on the hook for maintaining good ventilation so as to remove indoor bioeffluent VOCs.

Better systems are being researched.

Re: CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

#74

Post by strictnein »

hogwasher wrote: post #70
strictnein wrote: post #11

"Toxic atmosphere" definitely implies something that I don't seem to be finding in the actual paper. We regularly sit in environments that are 2-3x the levels of atmospheric CO2. Also, was this paper AI written? > "There is now a considerable body of published data showing impacts at levels Which is followed by this, with the very AI "For example" that seems to mostly contradict that statement? > "For example, one st…

with the very AI "For example"??????????????????

Yeah, I'd already responded to this twice before you made your insightful comment. Again, recency bias maybe, but I spent this week removing dozens of "for example" from the output of GPT-5.5.

Re: CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

#75

Post by OutOfHere »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #68
bottlepalm wrote: post #65

Historically levels were around 250 and now they're generally over 450. I wonder if I would feel a cognitive boost or just plain better in general if I were breathing 250. Do they sell home CO2 scrubbers? I can easily increase the CO2 in a room, but how about decreasing it?

> Do they sell home CO2 scrubbers? They're called houseplants.

Yes, but technically, several hundred houseplants would be required to offset the indoor carbon dioxide to lower it sufficiently. This has been studied.

Re: CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

#76

Post by timr »

OutOfHere wrote: post #22
timr wrote: post #17

This is such a bad paper. They take the NHANES data, average it for all participants, don’t bother controlling for things that have far more direct relevance to individual bicarbonate levels (e.g. diabetes, antacid use), and just assert that an observed correlation is causative.

Complications of diabetes can lower serum bicarbonate, not increase it. In general, it is true that there are many causes of a rise in bicarbonate, but doesn't this only makes the situation more precarious?

> Whatbaoutism is not a valid excuse.

It’s not “whataboutism”. It’s a basic control in a paper that takes population data and asserts a causal link between a complex, personal biological variable and a global phenomenon.

There are probably dozens of factors that matter a lot more to individual blood gas levels than global average co2. At a minimum, I’d expect to see controls for obvious medical factors before taking this argument seriously.

Re: CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

#77

Post by the8472 »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #68
bottlepalm wrote: post #65

Historically levels were around 250 and now they're generally over 450. I wonder if I would feel a cognitive boost or just plain better in general if I were breathing 250. Do they sell home CO2 scrubbers? I can easily increase the CO2 in a room, but how about decreasing it?

> Do they sell home CO2 scrubbers? They're called houseplants.

Those are humidifiers at best, the amount of CO2 they extract is negligible during the day and it goes negative during the night, they need to breathe too.

Re: CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

#78

Post by OutOfHere »

himata4113 wrote: post #58

Humans are extremely adaptable, for example there's people who work in extreme conditions underwater, what would be considered absolutely unbearable and torture is normal. More information on saturation diving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfiHc_rh4EY We're already slowly adapting to higher CO2 levels by sitting mostly indoors that have elevated CO2 from 500 to 800 with ranges up to 1500 (taken from my measurement…

Huh. Are you denying the upper safe level of serum bicarbonate? Just because we can tolerate 800 ppm of CO2 doesn't mean we can keep pushing it forever; there is clearly a limit. I suggest actually reading the paper.

Diving is not a 24x7 activity, and so it doesn't relate.

Re: CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

#79

Post by breezybottom »

himata4113 wrote: post #58

Humans are extremely adaptable, for example there's people who work in extreme conditions underwater, what would be considered absolutely unbearable and torture is normal. More information on saturation diving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfiHc_rh4EY We're already slowly adapting to higher CO2 levels by sitting mostly indoors that have elevated CO2 from 500 to 800 with ranges up to 1500 (taken from my measurement…

Just because they do it doesn't make such short run adaptations healthy or sustainable.

Re: CO2 overload, detected in human blood, suggests toxic atmosphere within 50 years

#80

Post by snowwrestler »

The atmosphere is the lowest possible value for your inhaled CO2. So it might be useful to think of this more in terms of impaired recovery rather than direct harm.

Imagine a healthy person with a healthy lifestyle and 8 hours of sleep every night. But every year, they are awakened 5 minutes earlier. So after 6 years they are only getting 7.5 hours of sleep every night. After 12 years, it’s only 7 hours. Will this have a health effect over time?

Obviously that example is a pretty big impairment. But the concept is what I’m getting at. Small persistent changes compound over time if there is no relief for recovery.

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