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Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

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Re: Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

#71

Post by Izkata »

jMyles wrote: post #65
Erem wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m here to disagree with what you said about lockdowns. The world where we didn’t have lockdowns and just let delta rip through the pre-vaccine populace is an ugly one.

The evidence suggests you are incorrect; parts of the world without lockdowns did not observe increased adverse outcomes. I thought this was 100% settled at this point?

It was established pretty firmly by the end of 2021 or early 2022. There was even at least one site that gamified it, by showing graphs of infections/deaths for similar US states and similar European countries and having you guess which ones did/didn't do various measures (lockdowns, masks, etc) or having you guess at what point in time they were instituted/repealed. None of it had any effect. IIRC the only real visible patterns involved latitude, time of year, and average population age. It's just really hard for most people to accept just how much their lives were disrupted from lies (if they ever even encountered the truth).

Re: Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

#72

Post by LorenPechtel »

naturalmovement wrote: post #29
LorenPechtel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of AIDS before the immune system dysfunction was found. That's where we are with Long Covid. One cause, a myriad of apparently unrelated effects--that's not how biology tends to work. Rather, there's something deeper we haven't found. And we certainly can't test for what we haven't found.

This is nothing like AIDS.

I am not in any way implying the diseases are related!

I'm saying that it's "like" AIDS in that we are seeing only the top layer, we don't understand what connects them. With AIDS we in time found a common failure in the immune system that by itself didn't produce symptoms, just enabled other failures. And then we found the virus that causes that immune failure.

With Long Covid we have not yet recognized whatever failure they have in common.

And look at how society reacted to AIDS back then. We are doing a lot of the same things with Long Covid.

Re: Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

#73

Post by Volundr »

dionian wrote: post #69
Jedd wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are they not a vaccine?

Before 2020, vaccines referred to things like attenuated viruses - you were basically being given a small weakened dose of the actual pathogen to prime your immune system. mRNA shots are a different animal and they are quite new.

Far be it from me to doubt a stranger on the Internet, but can you point out any medical textbook or dictionary written pre-2020 that limits the definition of "vaccine" to "attenuated viruses"?

Re: Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

#74

Post by kranke155 »

naturalmovement wrote: post #27
kranke155 wrote: post #2

hopefully we will get somewhere with these studies. The lack of solid research on a disease that affects millions (likely a good percentage undiagnosed) is really tough for patients - and myself really, as I've found i likely suffer from this. Finding out about autonomic dysfunction and small fiber neuropathy as I researched my own fatigue and finding out I likely have this has been very challenging.

> as I researched my own fatigue and finding out I likely have this Please don't do this. It's the medical equivalent of copy/pasting shit you don't understand from Stack Overflow. Go see a doctor who has a degree and training.

I did see a doctor. I’m mid diagnosis / testing.

Re: Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

#75

Post by kranke155 »

ksenzee wrote: post #37
naturalmovement wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as I researched my own fatigue and finding out I likely have this Please don't do this. It's the medical equivalent of copy/pasting shit you don't understand from Stack Overflow. Go see a doctor who has a degree and training.

Autonomic neurologists are the relevant specialists. I invite you to look for one in your local area and see how rare they are. The last I checked, the Seattle metro area (and in fact the whole state of Washington) had precisely one board-certified autonomic neurologist. Diagnostic delay is, unsurprisingly, around six years. Combine that with the fact that all the equipment you need to do a basic POTS test is a pulse…

I did see a doctor.

Re: Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

#76

Post by kranke155 »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #32
naturalmovement wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as I researched my own fatigue and finding out I likely have this Please don't do this. It's the medical equivalent of copy/pasting shit you don't understand from Stack Overflow. Go see a doctor who has a degree and training.

If there's no test for it, then what is the doctor going to do for something as nebulous as long covid?

There are tests for it. SFN biopsy, tilt table, ETT.

Re: Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

#77

Post by kranke155 »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #63
jph00 wrote: post #4

Wow mucosal innervation was around half in long covid patients - that's super worrying and would have nasty symptoms in practice. The findings also support the hypothesis that SARS-CoV-2 may cause structural nerve damage, which is perhaps the even bigger worry. :(

Any Long Covid patient can tell you its damaged their nerves, they can feel it. Nerve pain all over and various weird zaps and shakes etc, the nervous system is clearly damaged/being damaged across the entire body.

This is I believe one of the markers for small fiber neuropathy which is now increasingly being found in association with long covid and related syndromes.

Re: Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

#78

Post by fragmede »

naturalmovement wrote: post #29
LorenPechtel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of AIDS before the immune system dysfunction was found. That's where we are with Long Covid. One cause, a myriad of apparently unrelated effects--that's not how biology tends to work. Rather, there's something deeper we haven't found. And we certainly can't test for what we haven't found.

This is nothing like AIDS.

Yes it is. It's a virus that affects humans. There are. million differences and a million more similarities, saying it's nothing like AIDS without any qualification is just making noise.

Re: Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

#79

Post by fragmede »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #63
jph00 wrote: post #4

Wow mucosal innervation was around half in long covid patients - that's super worrying and would have nasty symptoms in practice. The findings also support the hypothesis that SARS-CoV-2 may cause structural nerve damage, which is perhaps the even bigger worry. :(

Any Long Covid patient can tell you its damaged their nerves, they can feel it. Nerve pain all over and various weird zaps and shakes etc, the nervous system is clearly damaged/being damaged across the entire body.

All the B12 and gabapentin in the world won't reverse the damage, but at least there's hope.

Re: Vagal cholinergic denervation of the gastric mucosa in Long-COVID-19

#80

Post by Izkata »

Volundr wrote: post #73
dionian wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before 2020, vaccines referred to things like attenuated viruses - you were basically being given a small weakened dose of the actual pathogen to prime your immune system. mRNA shots are a different animal and they are quite new.

Far be it from me to doubt a stranger on the Internet, but can you point out any medical textbook or dictionary written pre-2020 that limits the definition of "vaccine" to "attenuated viruses"?

This is the dictionary people were pointing at when it happened:

2021-01-18: https://web.archive.org/web/20210118193104/https://www.merri...

2021-01-26: https://web.archive.org/web/20210126065143/https://www.merri...

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