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Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

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Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#71

Post by 9dev »

hparadiz wrote: post #56
9dev wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google made Android open source for free And Hitler built the highways in Germany. What does that even prove? They can still abuse Android for vendor lock-in, or as a sales funnel to their commercial offerings, or as a data source for a myriad of things users did never really consent to. > As usual Europe can't innovate so just taxes people out of their market entirely. Yawn. Last time I looked, big tech is still w…

[flagged]

Eh, if that’s the only thing you read from that comment, I’m not really interested in continuing the conversation.

The opportunities for tech are worse in the EU compared to the US, nobody denies that. But I don’t think the existence of Google and Apple is the only criterion of success to judge a continent on. The world has room for different approaches to things.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#72

Post by ben_w »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #39
9dev wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As he just found out, that's exactly what the EU can do. And as he's about to find out, the EU is way too important a market for the American economy to ignore or pull out of. Play on your neighbour's yard, obey their rules.

I think rather, that it is the EU who cannot live without US cloud services and AI-services. Imagine if the US, behind closed doors of course, threatened to cut off all cloud services. Huge parts of the public and private sector could collapse.

> Huge parts of the public and private sector could collapse.

Today, yes.

The possibility of this, combined with how seriously Greenland was taken, means the EU is collectively saying "as a matter of urgency, we need strategic independence from the US".

This will take a while. Ironically, access to AI will make the transition much faster.

However, this is currently mutual interdependence: if the US actually cut off non-AI cloud to the EU, the US would screw over one of their major suppliers thus preventing them from supplying stuff, and leave itself entirely at the mercy of China. If it cut off AI to the EU, there goes a big market for tokens and the current data centre supply looks even more sketchy than its effect on electricity prices has already made it look. (But one bit of good news is that US electricity prices would come down).

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#73

Post by latexr »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #39
9dev wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As he just found out, that's exactly what the EU can do. And as he's about to find out, the EU is way too important a market for the American economy to ignore or pull out of. Play on your neighbour's yard, obey their rules.

I think rather, that it is the EU who cannot live without US cloud services and AI-services. Imagine if the US, behind closed doors of course, threatened to cut off all cloud services. Huge parts of the public and private sector could collapse.

Humanity has lived for thousands of years without cloud and AI services. We can definitely live without those. In fact, considering the damage that is being done to the environment (and thus ourselves) in name of those services, we’d very likely be better off without them in the first place.

A large reason US services have such a presence in Europe is that their flagrant disregard for rules and the pursuit of profit at all costs gives them an unfair advantage. If those US companies cut off their services, in the long run the ones in the EU would have the room to expand within the rules. That’s the opposite of the doomsday scenario you’re describing. Though of course an abrupt cut would be momentarily disruptive, countries in the EU are already taking steps to reduce reliance on US services (for example: LaSuite).

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#74

Post by cryptonym »

hparadiz wrote: post #66
abc123abc123 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think rather, that it is the EU who cannot live without US cloud services and AI-services. Imagine if the US, behind closed doors of course, threatened to cut off all cloud services. Huge parts of the public and private sector could collapse.

It would hurt the EU more than it would hurt us and they're in denial about it.

Let's say you are right on this. What's the point of hurting yourself? There would be no meaningful benefit.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#75

Post by tjpnz »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #39
9dev wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As he just found out, that's exactly what the EU can do. And as he's about to find out, the EU is way too important a market for the American economy to ignore or pull out of. Play on your neighbour's yard, obey their rules.

I think rather, that it is the EU who cannot live without US cloud services and AI-services. Imagine if the US, behind closed doors of course, threatened to cut off all cloud services. Huge parts of the public and private sector could collapse.

The EU would counter that threat with the anti-coercion instrument. Shut Trump up really fast when he was last talking about annexing Greenland.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#76

Post by knollimar »

xxs wrote: post #34
xienze wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like an ATM. Need some money? Let an American tech company operate with no issue for years and then one day "whoa we checked and you've been violating for years. Who knew? That'll be five billion Euros please."

>That'll be five billion Euros please." feel free to pull out of the market, if you dislike the rules. Google pulled out of China for instance.

That seems like a corcular argument.

Is this not chiefly a complaint about the rules? Saying "if Google doesn't like the rule it can leave" is a non argument.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#77

Post by nba456_ »

SockThief wrote: post #9
frollogaston wrote: post #5

These are basically meant as tarriffs, right?

> In 2018, the European Commission slapped Google with the record-breaking penalty on the grounds that it abused Android's mobile dominance... What do you think?

Yes?

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#78

Post by rspoerri »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #39
9dev wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As he just found out, that's exactly what the EU can do. And as he's about to find out, the EU is way too important a market for the American economy to ignore or pull out of. Play on your neighbour's yard, obey their rules.

I think rather, that it is the EU who cannot live without US cloud services and AI-services. Imagine if the US, behind closed doors of course, threatened to cut off all cloud services. Huge parts of the public and private sector could collapse.

Yes, think about that and how the shares would drop in an instant.

Good thing european governments and industries start to work on real technological and financial independence. It is high time for cutting ties with a country that is acting as irrational and self centered as the usa.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#79

Post by ben_w »

f6v wrote: post #55
w3ll_w3ll_w3ll wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would build our own alternatives. Russia is a much smaller market (120 million people) and they have their own tech companies.

> We would build our own alternatives. Right, and we haven’t because we just don’t wanna? The gap between US/China and the EU in AI is becoming wider by the day. Russia has like 3-4 large tech companies (Sber, Yandex, VK, and maybe Ozon). And they completely rely on foreign hardware. I don’t even want to imagine how could Russia start building frontier AI in these circumstances.

> Right, and we haven’t because we just don’t wanna? The gap between US/China and the EU in AI is becoming wider by the day.

We've repeatedly built things, they often get bought by US companies. This doesn't necessarily even involve them moving office, as for example Deep Mind was founded in the UK (while it was in the EU) and is still there (HQ: London; research offices in France & Germany so still in EU too) despite now being owned by Alphabet.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#80

Post by glimshe »

9dev wrote: post #26
throwaw12 wrote: post #11

> U.S. ambassador to the EU Andrew Puzder told CNBC that Europe “can’t over regulate” and hit companies with “huge fines” if it is going to participate in the AI economy. Imagine what these companies are doing in the US to their citizens, if ambassador is ready to defend them for violating rules/laws

As he just found out, that's exactly what the EU can do. And as he's about to find out, the EU is way too important a market for the American economy to ignore or pull out of. Play on your neighbour's yard, obey their rules.

The EU can certainly do a lot, with the exception of producing their own major tech companies.
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