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Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

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Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#71

To be honest, as much as people complain about EU regulations and bureaucracy, at least they are highly predictable. Every relevant piece of regulation, like the GDPR and the AI Act, was probably more than five years in the making and then added another year or two to take effect. If I were a frontier lab with a billion-dollar investment under my belt, I wouldn't want to operate in a regulatory environment with the s…

Anthropic have raised roughly $100 billion just in the first half of this year. Capital markets in the EU are simply unable to operate at that speed and scale.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#73
post #40

Have OpenAI or Anthropic ever had a model hacked/leaked? Is there any good reads on their cultures of preventing it from happening?

I believe Nvidia chips have a secure way to run your model on other infra. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/solutions/confident...

> I believe Nvidia chips have a secure way to run your model on other infra.

Yes. And its already on offer today.

See Tinfoil(US)[1] and Privatemode(Germany)[2]

Tinfoil have not been independently audited, it is somewhere on their long-term radar.

Privatemode have been thoroughly independently audited with documentation available on request.

[1]https://tinfoil.sh/ [2] https://www.privatemode.ai/

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#74
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewables can be combined with storage technologies such as batteries, so the syllogism "no generation during Dunkelflaute, but need reliablye generation -> renewables not viable" is too simple. My question is about whether renewables with storage technologies are a viable replacement for the gas power plants.

There are many facets of “viability”: technical, economic, political. There is obviously some reason why new gas plants are being built instead of renewables with storage.

Yes, and I'm still interested in better understanding that reason. My previous response just noted that the explanation you gave seemed overly simplistic to me in that it did not address that renewable energy can be stored, making it less volatile.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#75
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that you can turn gas plants on and off very quickly, and they can run at any time of day. That makes them excellent suppliers for peak demand. For much of the year, the evening peak occurs when the sun is not shining and the winds have died down, so renewables are not viable.

Renewables can be combined with storage technologies such as batteries, so the syllogism "no generation during Dunkelflaute, but need reliablye generation -> renewables not viable" is too simple. My question is about whether renewables with storage technologies are a viable replacement for the gas power plants.

I think you overestimate the currently available storage technologies. Batteries are very limited in capacity and super expensive in large scale. Hydrogen or synthetic methane might work, but those are gases, if you were opposed to them.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#76
post #52
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Nvidia chips have a secure way to run your model on other infra. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/solutions/confident...

Confidential computing is not secure against a potential attacker who has physical access to the hardware. The CC security guarantees explicitly assume the attacker has no physical access.

> is not secure against a potential attacker who has physical access to the hardware.

Well, yes, its the oldest adage in computing that "physical access == game over".

So I would argue it is more about reducing your risk to a more acceptable level.

And in that respect I would say using services such as Tinfoil or Privatemode is an enormous step up from "trust me dude, we won't look at your data".

Remotely verifiable attestation combined with independent audits of the company hosting is a large step up from a Zero Data Retention clause in your contract that you have no way of verifying is actually happening other than "trust me dude".

Clearly I absolutely agree, having it on your own infrastructure is best for confidentiality. But even then, what about evil-maid attacks in the datacentre ? Unless you have your own datacentre, you're going to be in a shared colo facility ...

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#77
post #72

Here is a solution: Trump forced all European countries to increase their defence budgets, And as AI is both a offensive and defensive tool, it can be argued that a chunk of this defence budget can be spent on AI R&D.

While I love your eye for malicious compliance I believe that Putin also forced European countries to increase their defence budgets.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#78
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fundamentally different definition of how laws are supposed to work. EU law isn't a list of checkboxes that you can technically check while going counter to the spirit, it is a philosophical direction, the details of following it are up to you. The spirit matters, not the letter. > When interpreting EU law, the CJEU pays particular attention to the aim and purpose of EU law (teleological interpretation), ra…

Right! Thanks for the link, I remembered reading that quote but couldn't find it. European regulators don't need hyper-specific definitions, because to them it's entirely normal to tell a company that they must do X or can't do Y even though the rules as written seem to authorize their current course of action Z. All regulatory systems have some informal edge cases, of course. But Americans expect law to in general w…

> But Americans expect law to in general work more like a list of checkboxes

To me as a European, this is a very low-trust view of lawmaking that assumes a hostile relationship between a government and its people.

The European approach is a bit more of a living conversation.

In the implementation period there's workshops where you figure out how to best comply in a way that makes sense for your business. There's a lot of flexibility there since you're just aiming for the spirit of the law, not some formal definition that might not make sense in your case.

If you're found out of compliance theres a bit of a back and forth and if you put in a good-faith effort to fix things, nobody has any issues.

The advantage of this approach is that the government doesn't tell you how to run your business and things stay agile as new use cases and business models come up.

It works out pretty well in general, and allows for a more cooperative approach to reaching policy goals.

Problems usually only arise when American companies try their bad-faith technicalities and find that doesn't fly here, like when Facebook changed their ToS to try to argue that using their services itself constitutes consent under the GDPR and predictably got dinged for it.

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#79

I think what's actually needed is two things: an EU training infrastructure that allows training of 10T+ models, and an EU inference infrastructure that is sufficient that it's possible to do RL on them. This effectively reduces the problem to a specialized supercomputing infrastructure problem which I think is relatively easy to solve. I think the chips are coming. I think Euclyd will be able to do the inference chi…

The big question is who is going to fund it? Is it tax payers money? If so how can they guarantee it’s not going to be another waste and corrupted disaster. Also EU is already late to the AI race and by the time the lawmakers starts to think about this, it would be game over

Re: Austria Lobbies EU to Host Anthropic After US Access Curbs

#80
post #25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But anthropic is. Hosting the model outside the US doesn’t do anything.

I think the idea is to host the whole company, physically.

I don't think that this is a loophole. Anthropic would need to copy the model to the new company in Europe, which would be akin to exporting the model, which is exactly what export restrictions are restricting.
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