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Thomann takes legal action against Fender

thomann.de

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Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#71

Post by nemomarx »

ben7799 wrote: post #33

I play guitar, I own a Fender guitar and a Fender amp, along with another non-fender amp and 2 other non Fender guitars. I'm just super sick of hearing about this story. Guitar players online are way too worked up about this. Fender is being annoying, but there is no way I'm getting rid of my Fender guitar or amp over this, and there is no way any of this would stop me from buying another one. The Fender shapes just…

the shape is in the public domain though? it would be like trying to patent a rounded rectangle, it's inherently silly

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#72

Post by dofm »

valdiorn wrote: post #35
dofm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FMIC likely cannot even properly identify the allegedly protected shape of the Strat because they sell multiple Stratocasters that have different body shapes and proportions. They may simply not be able to say "it's this thick", even, because they sell Strats with different thicknesses. They might not be able to say "it has these body contours" because they sell flat, edge-bound Stratocasters. The list goes on. Plus,…

This is exactly the argument that the lawyer for LSL guitars is making - who happens to be the same lawyer that beat Fender back in 2009 on behalf of the USPTO and cost them the copyright in the US :) (Absolutely baller move for LSL to hire that guy)

FWIW I think if it is true they also sent a letter to Ibanez — presumably about the AZES, which is the only thing really close — then that is where it gets interesting.

Because the AZES is clearly a double-cutaway S-type guitar shape, but it is just different enough to spot. And that then raises the question of whether Fender's own variations are as noticeable, because one of theirs has an AZES-type top cutaway.

This is when the penny dropped for me on that first point — when I read last week they had sent a letter to Ibanez.

Fender's weird CEO did say it's "not about all double cutaway" guitars. But if it is about a PRS and it is about an Ibanez, they are going to have to get somewhat specific about what they are claiming.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#73

Post by ahofmann »

_def wrote: post #36
dofm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Fender got someone in Germany to buy a Strat type guitar from a Chinese vendor on Aliexpress and ship it to Germany (I assume this part) 2) Fender sued said small Chinese Aliexpress vendor in a regional German court for selling a "copied" design in Germany 3) The small Chinese guitar vendor didn't turn up, obviously 4) Fender got a default judgement that the S-type (Stratocaster etc.) guitar body shape (which has…

aliexpress? Thomann themselves are big in manufacturing guitars in china.

They didn't sued Thomann and they didn't show up. They sued some Chinese guy who didn't show up and used that default judgement against everyone including Thomann.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#74

Post by BigTTYGothGF »

codedokode wrote: post #51

On a side note, think how conservative music world is, if people are still manufacturing and successfully sell guitar designed in 50s. You can probably take a 50s guitar and connect to a modern amp, or take a modern guitar and connect to a 50s amp and it will work. Compare this, for example, to smartphone chargers or headphones and their compatibility.

Consider: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stradivarius

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#75

Post by omnimus »

normaler wrote: post #21

I used to work for a Thomann competitor "Musicstore" in ~2005. The server was some tower server in a back office with a note reminding everyone not to turn it off. With Thoman being hugged to death right now I would like to think of there being a similar situation (its probably fine, but it made me feel nostalgic).

Yeah sure biggest european music ecommerce store runs on tower server in a back office.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#76

Post by mc32 »

matchagaucho wrote: post #54
normaler wrote: post #21

I used to work for a Thomann competitor "Musicstore" in ~2005. The server was some tower server in a back office with a note reminding everyone not to turn it off. With Thoman being hugged to death right now I would like to think of there being a similar situation (its probably fine, but it made me feel nostalgic).

Similar work experience, I was with a CBS-owned music company that had a CNC machine with some old Fender Telecaster and Stratocaster body templates. The hardware manager was cool and would let employees turn slabs of wood into Tele- and Strat-style bodies after hours. When the Fender/German court ruling came down, my first thought was: Fender has had roughly 70 years with the Stratocaster design, and the broader ind…

Things become generic if you stop defending them/enforcing your IP.

I think the iPhone at one time defended the design of its “squircle” corners. Eventually settling out of court.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#77

Post by dofm »

12_throw_away wrote: post #38
eigenspace wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extra bizarre to me, because for most purposes German law doesnt operate on a system of "legal precedent" the way countries which adopted the UK model do. Am I missing something about Germany following a precedent system for patent/copyright or something, or is this even dumber than it sounds?

As a legal theory, "this default judgement against an anonymous AliExpress seller is binding on literally everyone in the world" kinda reminds me of the Dune nft bros' "we bought a book about Dune and therefore now own the intellectual property rights to Dune." Except this one is apparently coming from actual accredited lawyers? (Who knows, I'm not a lawyer, maybe it really does work that way and Fender is the first…

If it does work that way then this is going to get very funny, isn't it?

https://gettrumpguitars.com

Because the only way Trump Guitars can sell an LP-type guitar to US customers is that Gibson also lost a body-shape case like this (to Washburn, if I remember right?)

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#78

Post by levicole »

ben7799 wrote: post #33

I play guitar, I own a Fender guitar and a Fender amp, along with another non-fender amp and 2 other non Fender guitars. I'm just super sick of hearing about this story. Guitar players online are way too worked up about this. Fender is being annoying, but there is no way I'm getting rid of my Fender guitar or amp over this, and there is no way any of this would stop me from buying another one. The Fender shapes just…

I'll take my Suhr "Strat" over any American made Strat any day, as well as my hand wired boutique amp over any pro reverb (new or vintage).

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#79

Post by codedokode »

BigTTYGothGF wrote: post #60
codedokode wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think people who want to buy a strat, would prefer to buy a Fender strat and not a cheaper copy that has the same shape but might sound worse? I personally do not like the price though.

> would prefer to buy a Fender strat I don't think that's true at all. A strat ("strat style" or "s-style") is a shape and configuration. Many of the non-Fender strats are perfectly fine guitars (I have one) from major manufacturers like Ibanez, ESR, Jackson, and others. See forex: https://www.sweetwater.com/c589--S_style--Electric_Guitars

Those mostly do not look like copies; they have slightly different shape, the jack is located in a different place, Ibanez has shaper horns, the pickups are different, many do not have a pickguard. However, PRS Silver Sky looks somewhat close to the original to me, although it has a different headstock.

What I meant by "copy" is when it looks exactly the same.

Re: Thomann takes legal action against Fender

#80

Post by codedokode »

mirsadm wrote: post #67
codedokode wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think people who want to buy a strat, would prefer to buy a Fender strat and not a cheaper copy that has the same shape but might sound worse? I personally do not like the price though.

I'm looking at buying one now and as far as I can tell Fender seems to make shoddy quality instruments these days. I see a lot of recommendations for PRS and others.

I wish there was some kind of audio comparison.
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