I have seen this behavior from others as well, from all over the world, but Italian cuisine seems to trigger a special protective reaction from the hometown crowd. Perhaps it’s because it is (almost) universally popular?
What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
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Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#72I think what is so interesting is also, if you peel back the curtain, most recipes have standardized at a fairly recent point in their national mythos, depending on how long that is. Recipes are a snapshot of economic and technological advances of the time, and whole classes of recipe are not available until certain technological watersheds, like * precise temperature controls for ovens and stoves in the early 20th c…
For more on this see the book 1493:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1493:_Uncovering_the_New_World...
Many folks are probably familiar with what happened in Europe post-1492, but there's a whole bunch of stuff on the Pacific side of the Americas as well.
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#73Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#74If I ordered a chicken burger and got a chicken sandwich, I would be a bit miffed. I think there's an element of expectation-setting when we're talking about authenticity. Personally, I wouldn't sweat authenticity too much. There's excellent food to be had by mixing and remixing dishes.
Just asking - in your mind what is the difference between a chicken burger and a chicken sandwich? We Aussies argue with yanks that a burger is made by the bun and a sandwich is made by the two slices of bread.
So chicken sandwiches, pork sandwiches, and steak sandwiches, which are all common here and typically served on buns, aren't considered burgers because the meat isn't ground.
It's so thoroughly thought of this way here that that the product "hamburger helper" doesn't involve bread or sandwiches whatsoever: it's a box of pre-portioned ingredients, maybe with pasta or rice, that you cook with with ground beef in a pot or skillet.
Edit: old timey American cartoons used to refer to "hamburger sandwiches" which were by all accounts the same as burgers today; the "sandwich" part got lost sometime before it got to Australia, i guess.
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#75I think this is what makes Asian food more exciting and innovative. No whiff of elitism. No status-signaling or having to appeal to the taste of King Louis the 14th. Just cook stuff and make it taste good for as many people as possible; let the market decide what's good and let cuisines intermingle and evolve organically. Striving for authenticity is essentially a pause button. While we should absolutely preserve cul…
Royalty played a role in many Asian food cultures. Sinseollo, biryani, cho muang, birds nest soup. There's plenty of examples of royal influence on cuisine. Wealth, and lack of it, drove a lot of culinary traditions. It's a universal thing.
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#76Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#77I'm surprised there wasn't more soapboxing about how "allowing" recipes to modernize is a principled matter of social justice.
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#78Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. Everything else is gatekeeping and power struggle. Im glad this discussion comes up every year with a hard hitting blogger recycling the same points for clicks because at least it makes a new batch of people think about it and the second order implications about identity in general.
> Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. It shouldn't even mean this much, frankly, as those things are merely protectionist trade policies meant to artificially drive up the price of certain goods without regard for quality. People on the Internet give too much deference to politicized trade regulations.
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#79I think what is so interesting is also, if you peel back the curtain, most recipes have standardized at a fairly recent point in their national mythos, depending on how long that is. Recipes are a snapshot of economic and technological advances of the time, and whole classes of recipe are not available until certain technological watersheds, like * precise temperature controls for ovens and stoves in the early 20th c…
Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice
#80I don’t mind fusion recipes or substituting with what you have. I have a fusion recipe collection I enjoy, and I substitute ingredients too. But sometimes I want to experience a certain taste that is unlike everything else around: break the pattern, have something how I remember it tasted. I don’t want to eat an “adapted” version of the dish, and it really annoys me that restaurants consistently fail.
Take, for example, pad thai and the way its simplest version is commonly cooked in Thailand today. There’s a set of ingredients commonly used to make pad thai. Some serving sides are optional and maybe uncommon (e.g., banana flower); some ingredients are adjusted individually at the table (e.g., amount of dry chili powder). But you’d always see it with garlic chives and never with mushrooms, for example. So the dish has a certain flavor profile and a feel to it you’ll remember after eating enough of them.
A pattern, and likely the source of annoyance to some, is that restaurants have a tendency to adapt foreign cuisines to the local taste as opposed to preserving the “authentic” taste. I’ll give credit: sometimes a new interesting dish gets created that even appears in the home country: California sushi roll. Oftentimes, though, it results in something that tastes like neither the original nor a distinct new dish. It kind of tastes like the “authentic” but wrong - an uncanny valley. For example, Indian restaurants in Europe tend to significantly underseason their food, making it taste bland to anyone who has tasted the real thing.