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What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

iza.ac

71–80 of 102 posts

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#71
I feel like we’re ignoring the fact that Italians bomb the comment section of every online recipe for an Italian with gatekeeping comments. Carbonara, sure, but Kenji did cacio e pepe and got crucified — I don’t know if even the Pasta Grannies are safe.

I have seen this behavior from others as well, from all over the world, but Italian cuisine seems to trigger a special protective reaction from the hometown crowd. Perhaps it’s because it is (almost) universally popular?

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#72

I think what is so interesting is also, if you peel back the curtain, most recipes have standardized at a fairly recent point in their national mythos, depending on how long that is. Recipes are a snapshot of economic and technological advances of the time, and whole classes of recipe are not available until certain technological watersheds, like * precise temperature controls for ovens and stoves in the early 20th c…

> exchanges of ingredients in the Columbian exchange (tomatoes in Italy, potatoes in Russia, chilis in India and Korea, etc.)

For more on this see the book 1493:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1493:_Uncovering_the_New_World...

Many folks are probably familiar with what happened in Europe post-1492, but there's a whole bunch of stuff on the Pacific side of the Americas as well.

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#74
post #48

If I ordered a chicken burger and got a chicken sandwich, I would be a bit miffed. I think there's an element of expectation-setting when we're talking about authenticity. Personally, I wouldn't sweat authenticity too much. There's excellent food to be had by mixing and remixing dishes.

Just asking - in your mind what is the difference between a chicken burger and a chicken sandwich? We Aussies argue with yanks that a burger is made by the bun and a sandwich is made by the two slices of bread.

In the US, "Burger" generally refers to ground meat patty, "hamburger" can mean either the sandwich or the ground beef itself. If you bought a pound of ground beef at the store, you might say you bought "a pound of hamburger." Turkey burgers, chicken burgers, bison burgers, etc all focus on the idea that it's the ground meat patty that makes them a burger. Most Americans (or at least me) would say a patty melt is a type of burger, because it has beef burger patties, despite not being on a bun.

So chicken sandwiches, pork sandwiches, and steak sandwiches, which are all common here and typically served on buns, aren't considered burgers because the meat isn't ground.

It's so thoroughly thought of this way here that that the product "hamburger helper" doesn't involve bread or sandwiches whatsoever: it's a box of pre-portioned ingredients, maybe with pasta or rice, that you cook with with ground beef in a pot or skillet.

Edit: old timey American cartoons used to refer to "hamburger sandwiches" which were by all accounts the same as burgers today; the "sandwich" part got lost sometime before it got to Australia, i guess.

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#75

I think this is what makes Asian food more exciting and innovative. No whiff of elitism. No status-signaling or having to appeal to the taste of King Louis the 14th. Just cook stuff and make it taste good for as many people as possible; let the market decide what's good and let cuisines intermingle and evolve organically. Striving for authenticity is essentially a pause button. While we should absolutely preserve cul…

> No whiff of elitism. No status-signaling or having to appeal to the taste of King Louis the 14th.

Royalty played a role in many Asian food cultures. Sinseollo, biryani, cho muang, birds nest soup. There's plenty of examples of royal influence on cuisine. Wealth, and lack of it, drove a lot of culinary traditions. It's a universal thing.

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#77
I broadly agree with this post, but the tone of it reads very dated like 2010s Buzzfeed trying and failing to assert dominance i.e. "I will gatekeep your gatekeeping!"

I'm surprised there wasn't more soapboxing about how "allowing" recipes to modernize is a principled matter of social justice.

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#78
post #15

Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. Everything else is gatekeeping and power struggle. Im glad this discussion comes up every year with a hard hitting blogger recycling the same points for clicks because at least it makes a new batch of people think about it and the second order implications about identity in general.

> Food authenticity should only mean DOP or geographic identity (GI) regulation. It shouldn't even mean this much, frankly, as those things are merely protectionist trade policies meant to artificially drive up the price of certain goods without regard for quality. People on the Internet give too much deference to politicized trade regulations.

It’s ok to admit you can’t tell the difference between real parmigiana and kraft Parmesan. You don’t need get defensive and claim everyone else except you is a phony because of your lack of interest and/or taste.

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#79

I think what is so interesting is also, if you peel back the curtain, most recipes have standardized at a fairly recent point in their national mythos, depending on how long that is. Recipes are a snapshot of economic and technological advances of the time, and whole classes of recipe are not available until certain technological watersheds, like * precise temperature controls for ovens and stoves in the early 20th c…

Beer purity 1516

Re: What even is food authenticity? Why we guard carbonara, and flatten chicken rice

#80
I find myself leaning into the food authenticity camp. To clarify, I define “authenticity” as follows: a dish is cooked with particular ingredients in a particular way at a particular place.

I don’t mind fusion recipes or substituting with what you have. I have a fusion recipe collection I enjoy, and I substitute ingredients too. But sometimes I want to experience a certain taste that is unlike everything else around: break the pattern, have something how I remember it tasted. I don’t want to eat an “adapted” version of the dish, and it really annoys me that restaurants consistently fail.

Take, for example, pad thai and the way its simplest version is commonly cooked in Thailand today. There’s a set of ingredients commonly used to make pad thai. Some serving sides are optional and maybe uncommon (e.g., banana flower); some ingredients are adjusted individually at the table (e.g., amount of dry chili powder). But you’d always see it with garlic chives and never with mushrooms, for example. So the dish has a certain flavor profile and a feel to it you’ll remember after eating enough of them.

A pattern, and likely the source of annoyance to some, is that restaurants have a tendency to adapt foreign cuisines to the local taste as opposed to preserving the “authentic” taste. I’ll give credit: sometimes a new interesting dish gets created that even appears in the home country: California sushi roll. Oftentimes, though, it results in something that tastes like neither the original nor a distinct new dish. It kind of tastes like the “authentic” but wrong - an uncanny valley. For example, Indian restaurants in Europe tend to significantly underseason their food, making it taste bland to anyone who has tasted the real thing.

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