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The Birth and Death of JavaScript (2014)

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Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript (2014)

#71

Regardless of the content, this is one of my most favourite talks ever, especially in the delivery aspect. It served me as an inspiration for quite some time when I had to present anything to a wide audience.

Same. I think I watched this 10 times when it first came out.

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript (2014)

#72
Great talk. I'm glad he was wrong about this. Having js/wasm be the standard ABI would have been horrible. Obviously he could have never predicted in 2014 that Valve would pour a metric fuckton of resources into improving Wine/Proton, to the point of getting x64 binaries to run on other architectures. But here we are, past the year of the Linux desktop, well on our way to the year of the Linux handset.

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript (2014)

#73
post #59

The problem is Wasm is not improving nearly as fast as predicted here. We don't have DOM manipulation so we will still need JS regardless as glue code, or just eschew HTML and CSS altogether and render everything on a canvas as Flutter and some Rust GUIs do but that's a shame to lose the feature set of the web.

People choosing Flutter would say the uniformity of a canvas across all browsers is more valuable than gaining the inconsistently implemented web feature set.

Yes that's probably true.

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript (2014)

#74
post #68

Almost everything happened according to the script. Now we are just waiting for another OS fully based on browser technology or WASM OS. webOS and Firefox OS was at least 20 years ahead of its time.

Is there a technical reason you don't mention ChromeOS? Just asking out of curiosity. Also, the screenshots I've seen of webOS makes me long for a revival... not only on smart TVs

Not the parent, but: ChromeOS isn't what I'd call a web-based OS. It supports Android apps, and that's how you get a lot of things that don't have web versions. Not much different from how Ubuntu can run Chrome and also supports native apps.

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript (2014)

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a technical reason you don't mention ChromeOS? Just asking out of curiosity. Also, the screenshots I've seen of webOS makes me long for a revival... not only on smart TVs

Not the parent, but: ChromeOS isn't what I'd call a web-based OS. It supports Android apps, and that's how you get a lot of things that don't have web versions. Not much different from how Ubuntu can run Chrome and also supports native apps.

Good point. Since I've never owned a Chromebook, I didn't even know that they are capable of installing arbitrary Android apps.

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript (2014)

#77
post #68

Almost everything happened according to the script. Now we are just waiting for another OS fully based on browser technology or WASM OS. webOS and Firefox OS was at least 20 years ahead of its time.

Is there a technical reason you don't mention ChromeOS? Just asking out of curiosity. Also, the screenshots I've seen of webOS makes me long for a revival... not only on smart TVs

Personally, I dont consider chromeos wheb thinking about operating systems because it's not a real os, its a toy released by a shady advertising company. (Same as android.)

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript (2014)

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C syntax was never that great. It's basically mnemonic PDP-11 assembler with a few added data structures. js is mutant C with dementia - hacked together over over a fortnight, full of inconsistencies and weird corners. console.log(1 + "2"); // "12" console.log(1 - "2"); // -1 console.log(NaN === NaN); // false console.log(+0 === -0); // true const obj = {}; console.log(obj.foo); // undefined, not an error

NaN is a standardized dynamic languages datatype governed by IEEE 754, this is not something to complain about as its behavior is part of the official standard and for good reason, as outlined in the standard.

Why dynamic? `NAN != NAN` is just as true in C.

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript (2014)

#79

The problem is Wasm is not improving nearly as fast as predicted here. We don't have DOM manipulation so we will still need JS regardless as glue code, or just eschew HTML and CSS altogether and render everything on a canvas as Flutter and some Rust GUIs do but that's a shame to lose the feature set of the web.

JS is just so much more approachable than WASM. You can debug it on the fly, feed it to an LLM, there is no wrapper, it's just so much easier to tinker and work with it.

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript (2014)

#80
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's also the fastest way to support Mac, Windows, and Linux all at once. Flutter exists too, and supports iOS and Android in addition to the desktop OSes. The dev time is pretty fast too imo. That said, idk how the performance compares to Electron or Native apps. As a small team, optimizing for "actually getting the thing shipped" is so much better than optimizing for speed anyway.

Darts an amazing language too.

It is basically a revamped Java.

Google lost the opportunity to actually make it take off, had they replaced the Java stack with Dart, instead of staying in the Java world and adopt Kotlin.

However the Android team was never a great supporter from Dart in first place, hence why you won't find anything Dart on https://developer.android.com.

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