71–80 of 127 posts
I think they priced themselves out of the market.
What market, though? This isn't an iPad, it's a full machine. Agree that they're not doing a great job of communicating that, though. Calling them both Surface may have been a bad move.
True, but par for the course for the same company that uses "Windows" to describe the OS in everything from a data center to a cell phone.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't get it, really. They designed a tablet whose primary use-case is in laptop mode? Why not just buy a better-spec'd laptop for the same price? And why does Surface have a mission-critical piece of hardware (the keyboard) missing from it? Sorry, but at a whopping $1050 after purchasing this critical component, I'd rather just buy a 11in Macbook air for cheaper.
I see it as an answer to this question: when I leave home, should I bring my MacBook Air, my iPad, or both? None, take the Surface.
Everyone seems really blown away by the pricing and I'm not sure why. This isn't an iPad, it houses a fully functional operating system that lets you run existing Windows 7 desktop applications. In a use-case scenario I see it being more similar to a laptop than to the iPad. If I can run Visual Studio on it and it handles all my existing Windows 7 applications correctly, I'd consider purchasing it. I don't look at it…
The problem is that the pricing puts it into a weird space in the market. If you want to use it as a laptop, you have to add one of the covers (the $120 Touch Cover or $130 Type Cover) so you have a keyboard, and that puts the price of the package over $1,000. You can get a "real" laptop (even a Macbook Air!) for less than that. An argument could be made that Surface Pro isn't just a laptop, but a laptop plus a table…
Edit:Just like usual it looks like the notable number of anti-'M$' haters on HN are flagging this article down the front page just like they do to any article that is not hating on MS(resulting in some legit sites getting fully permabanned). Stay classy HN.
Original Comment:
That's the thing, it defines a new place in the market because it has new characteristics, just like the iPad did when it started and many were calling it just a bigger iPod Touch or a smaller crippled laptop and were saying it would fail.
I think it's especially good for developers when you can run the full Visual Studio and Eclipse etc. but still portable, not to mention the Enterprise where it fully integrates with AD and group policy and can support the full Office Suite including Outlook.The digitizer and the pen is a nice bonus. In some companies, tablets have a stigma that they're entertainment devices meant for Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja, and thus management doesn't like buying them(except for senior management). With the Surface Pro, it might be seen as a productivity device that you can use while traveling and also they can lock them down as much as you want to with group policy, do updates and deployments just like the regular desktop PCs and laptops.
It'd be okay for couch surfing, I have a HP Touch pad which roughly the same size and weight and it isn't too bad, but you could probably buy a 7" tablet on the cheap if couch surfing is your thing. So, for some people this is a good choice and I think the pricing is on the premium to make it feel like a premium device.
I think one of the big points is the portability factor, thus it may not replace a 13.3" Ultrabook or a 7" tablet for all, but for some, it can and for some others, they will just buy it in addition to them.
My only concern is the battery life, they could swap out that i5 for a Clover Trail Atom but I think they want to keep the power. Maybe there will be a cheaper lighter version later with a new Atom.
>An argument could be made that Surface Pro isn't just a laptop, but a laptop plus a tablet in which case the appropriate price comparison would be the cost of a Macbook and an iPad.
I don't think pricing ever works like that. But anyway, if you want to think it that way, they're giving a discount for the lower battery life and greater weight.
One other issue about pricing is that they can't use their tens of billions of dollars to subsidize it, it'd just kill the OEMs. With this price, the OEMs have some breathing room to make competing devices.
I think quite some folks will have a desktop for PC gaming, Laptop for couch work, Surface for working while not at home, and a 7" tablet for couch/web surfing(or a ~5" phone).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see it as an answer to this question: when I leave home, should I bring my MacBook Air, my iPad, or both? None, take the Surface.
So you have something that's not good at any of the use cases involved?
Classic Microsoft rear-guard move to protect margins for Intel and their hardware chain (and consequently trying to prop up their desktop OS appeal as well) by trying to "tablet-ify" their existing offerings. Expect a bunch of Surface clones (MS approved) to hit the market soon afterwards. This strategy won't work. Many folks who would buy a Win8 Pro surface are likely going to just buy an ultrabook or netbook + iPad…
Can the Asus Transformer run Eclipse? If not, can it or will it, anytime soon?
Surface RT is too little. Why pay as much as an iPad and more than a Nexus 10 for a device with a last-generation screen and last-generation processor?
Surface Pro is too much. There is a segment of people who would want to run full-fleged desktop apps on a touch-screen tablet, but I'm convinced that the number of those people is vanishingly small. The apparent usefulness of being able to run classic desktop apps decreases when you realize that the apps that won't work with Windows RT are by definition the ones that haven't been updated to be usable on a touch screen. Moreover, with the touch cover requiring a flat surface to use the keyboard, the whole "laptop replacement" angle goes out the window in a lot of situations where a 10.6" laptop would be very desirable (e.g. train commutes).
It was a mistake from the beginning to have two lines. They should have focused on making one compelling product, instead of two severely compromised ones. Why are goodies like the 1080p screen bundled inextricably with the battery-destroying Ivy Bridge processor? Office is the key differentiator here, the "Windows ecosystem" is secondary. Surface should have been one device with a Clover Trail processor, 1080p screen, Office, and 8+ hours battery life. If Google can deliver the Nexus 10 at $400, Microsoft should have been able to deliver such a device at $600.
Unfortunately, all of the OEM's are copying Microsoft's RT/Pro dichotomy. The Windows RT devices have low-resolution screens and last-generation processors, while the Windows Pro devices have battery-sucking Ivy Bridge processors. It's a distinction that maybe made sense to some marketing geek, but one that's totally non-sensical as a practical matter.
In January, Surface with Windows 8 Pro will be available in two versions and pricing will start at $899. Ouch.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Since when did touch screens become a requirement or even a semi-useful thing for laptops? I don't think anyone said it did. All I said was this surface is very comparable to an air but also includes a touch screen and is cheaper.
Well, no. The macbook air has a keyboard, it has been available for a long time, and it's not running Windows 8; so it's a bit of a stretch to call them comparable just like that.
Even with the keyboard, it's still cheaper than what I paid for my macbook air and I get a touch screen.
To me that's better value, if you dont' agree, I'm fine with that:)
Before even clicking the link, I thought to myself, 'What would I pay for a Windows 8 tablet?' Not more than $500 I thought. When I saw they priced it at $900 I laughed. Microsoft is a non-stop train wreck of misery at the moment. It's like Window ME and Windows Vista combined. I hope they come out of this beating with a renewed sense of reality. Maybe shed a few layers of management..
This is closer to a Macbook Air competitor (with keyboard) in my opinion, that also has the ability to be a tablet and runs x86 applications. Given that, the price makes more sense.