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Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

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Re: Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

#71

Post by pdimitar »

JyrkiAlakuijala wrote: post #58
apt-get wrote: post #49

The sloppa in this article is... offending. The obvious AI headings, pointless genned image of people (I'm starting to think islam had a point with discouraging depictions of human figures), and especially the blurry, artifacted, distractingly skeuomorphic diagram, with random wire traces going everywhere... this is a technical blog, not an investor sales pitch! Every time I see one of these, I have to double-check f…

I spent 10+ years in building JPEG XL and I'm proud of the result. It wasn't always easy times. It is not so bad people can see what I look like and take a peek what the process was to get there. This article is not about the entropy codes and predictors, memory bandwidth and decision trees, but about the long horizon planning in corporate-driven OSS efforts and being connected to both community and cross-industry.

And you addressed your parent comment... how exactly?

Re: Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

#72

Post by ksec »

Gigachad wrote: post #20
spartanatreyu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but they left out that Chrome removed their own support for JPEG XL saying no one in the industry was in favour of it despite everyone seeing it was the future screaming for it and building support for it into their own products. Chrome's blink was the only major browser engine not supporting it and that prevented it from becoming a web standard and they refused to acknowledge they were wrong. Chrome only backt…

jpeg xl is also now used for the latest version of the DNG raw image format, and the iphone now encodes raw images as jpeg xl in DNG. It's so clearly the future for photography that Google is holding back. Apple surprisingly has been the first with full support everywhere in their OSs and in Safari.

I just wanted to add the decision for JXL inside DNG was well known even before it happened and Chrome still said no. Adobe and Intel along with plenty of other players in the industry screams this is so good they are all adding support. But still Google said no.

And to make matter worst the publish the worst comparison document and benchmarks for AVIF against JXL.

Re: Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

#73

Post by ksec »

halapro wrote: post #46
Gigachad wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintain in a sense. Google introduced it in Chrome as an experimental flag, then removed it with no real explanation, and only just brought it back.

Which it makes perfect since this it's the same company which "deprecated" MP4 support a long while ago in an effort to push to WebM.

Thank You I have nearly forgotten about that. At one point I was worried they might even remove AAC-LC support.

Re: Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

#74

Post by [deleted] »

breppp wrote: post #47
mrandish wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I was totally nerd-sniped by the image. I've never seen an engineer draw a whiteboard diagram anywhere near that detailed and tidy. No acronyms, consistent title case, descenders on a baseline - everything about it is wrong. It's so counter to reality, I seriously wondered if it was a joke. The Nano Banana team should be pissed Google PR is distributing such a terrible photo. The poses are stilted, expressions f…

I think the logic follows: If we are already staging a scene just for PR purposes as was usually done then why not generate it using AI?

[deleted]

Re: Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

#75

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

JyrkiAlakuijala wrote: post #61
zerobees wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what I've heard, Google is monitoring per-org usage and strongly / incessantly encouraging teams to experiment with the technology, so a lot of tokens get spent on pointless stuff like that. The preceding diagram, which is needlessly busy and blurry, appears to be AI-generated too.

This was not a factor. It was either staging the photograph or AI. Photographing inside the office can be a complex process with seeking appropriate permissions, and I didn't have an alternative space to do the photography. AI felt like an easier solution.

> It was either staging the photograph or AI.

The third option is to just not, because an image of two people standing in front of a white board has little value even when the photo isn't staged and the white board content isn't generic.

Re: Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

#76

Post by ksec »

Caspy7 wrote: post #26
LoganDark wrote: post #23

I'm behind -- did Chrome un-remove JXL support? Google is suddenly behind it again? Why/how did they change their minds?

Yes. They're adding it back to Chrome. This last January at FOSDEM there was a panel with representatives from different browser companies. During the panel Kadir Topal, a web platform product manager at Google, indicated that because of the interest they saw in JPEG XL through the Interop Project that they changed their course on supporting it. https://github.com/web-platform-tests/interop The video of the panel can…

That is a very cherishable way to put it. In realty JXL has been on one of the highest request in Interop for at least 2 if not 3 years, and both Microsoft Edge and Safari have spoken about frustration of "certain features" not being implemented despite high number of votes.

Re: Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

#77

Post by ksec »

201984 wrote: post #68
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a standard ISO Standard thing which could perhaps be justified when standards where printed on paper. The JPEG XL team released a draft to try to work around this but couldn't avoid it for the official standard release.

Does anyone know why the JPEG XL team went through ISO instead of publishing it themselves?

Because it is an international standard accepted by government and many other parties.

Re: Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

#78

Post by ksec »

201984 wrote: post #29
Gigachad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an open standard because the concepts and reference implementation are free and open source even if the PDF is paywalled. Realistically you could just pirate the PDF and write a jpeg xl encoder/decoder and your code wouldn't be infringing on any patents.

Seems "closed but royalty free" would be a more accurate description then.

Before the world of internet, Open does not always mean free. They are two different concept. A proprietary codec isn't open, and you can't use it everywhere unless the owner allows you to or provided tools and support. Microsoft with their WMV and Realmedia with RVMB for example. H.263 and H.264 was called an open standard at the time, any body can buy and implement it.

Re: Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

#79

Post by JyrkiAlakuijala »

pdimitar wrote: post #71
JyrkiAlakuijala wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent 10+ years in building JPEG XL and I'm proud of the result. It wasn't always easy times. It is not so bad people can see what I look like and take a peek what the process was to get there. This article is not about the entropy codes and predictors, memory bandwidth and decision trees, but about the long horizon planning in corporate-driven OSS efforts and being connected to both community and cross-industry.

And you addressed your parent comment... how exactly?

Parent comment says I should not be known and my picture should not be on the blog post. I just want to disagree with that. In my opinion JPEG XL is a notable success and it is also ok to celebrate us, its makers.

Re: Journey to JPEG XL: open-source experiments shaped the future of image coding

#80

Post by pdimitar »

JyrkiAlakuijala wrote: post #79
pdimitar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you addressed your parent comment... how exactly?

Parent comment says I should not be known and my picture should not be on the blog post. I just want to disagree with that. In my opinion JPEG XL is a notable success and it is also ok to celebrate us, its makers.

I think everyone on HN would easily agree with this. They take issue with the how i.e. AI-assisted images (and maybe text).
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