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What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

stevemagness.substack.com

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Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#71

Post by paulryanrogers »

iamalizard wrote: post #28
jszymborski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand how being scared/traumatized by videos of bike accidents will increase that child's visibility. The onus here is on municipal and federal governments to make roads and cars safer.

It won't increase their visibility, obviously. It will make them think twice before going on that crosswalk. Maybe they'll wait for a car that slows down after they've taken only 1 step on the crosswalk, maybe they'll wait for their eyes to meet the driver's or to see the driver making a "go, go" sign with their hand. Governments should make roads safer but until they do, we should care for ourselves. Imagine a sidew…

> Should we blindly go on the sidewalk saying "the government should make it better" or should we exercise caution not to trip and fall?

The answer isn't binary. It's both. Governments are us, and we use that tool to manage collective resources like roads and sidewalks.

Obviously we do what we can in the moment. That doesn't mean those given power are free to neglect our collective property, or even sell out to the interests of those who would profit from pedestrian hostile "solutions".

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#72

Post by porknubbins »

human305893 wrote: post #62

I can think of so many reasons but the biggest I think is the reduction of community. - When I was a kid mums worked part time or not at all. We had school fates and lots more community gatherings. - Dads didn't work as hard. Half of them would be at your soccer practice at 6pm to hang out - Parents were on local sports teams together or other social groups as well - You did most of your shopping at the local shops,…

Where I lived we knew a few neighbors but didn’t really interact every day or feel like they would watch out for other people’s kids.

That didn’t stop me from biking and exploring all over from age 6-7, which seems unthinkable now. I think it was mostly just more risk tolerance and less flashy warnings about danger. Like my dad biked around the same block so why not let me and there was not much more thought given to it.

Your suburb sounds nice but I guess Im just saying that level of community wasn’t necessary for kids to have freedom.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#73

Post by paulryanrogers »

rkagerer wrote: post #60
verve_rat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, instead of trying to scare (scar?) children you should just teach them to make eye contact with the driver so you are sure they have seen you before you put yourself in the path of their car? How much of our "safety" culture around kids is because people don't have basic life skills and aren't passing them on to kids?

In my experience, the practice of eye contact is natural and generally pretty effective. "I see you, you see me. Acknowledged."

[dead]

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#74

Post by keepamovin »

PantaloonFlames wrote: post #22

The article is confused. The opinion is, it's so much safer _now_ than it was in the 1970s, it makes no sense to restrict children's wanderings. But the article doesn't consider whether restricting children's wanderings is the REASON it is so much safer for children now. "We have so many fire-safety rules in the building codes in Seattle. But get this: we haven't had any major fires since 1889! It's obvious we don't…

Tangential to risks raised in the article I guess, but I cannot understand something that's happening in the US: it's crazy how many demented people there are. That there is a market that captures children in order to traffick them for sex; that there are hundreds of people doing this regularly being wrapped up by LE raids, and dozens of children freed; that these raids happen on the frequency of weeks, or months; that the numbers on this in the United States are in the order of 100,000s per year (at least of missing/unaccounted I think). How can it be like this?

I just can't conceive it - how is this even a thing? What is the psychology of these adults doing this? How is the morality of this lacking? And how can there be so many people involved? Where is all this insanity coming from? How did it develop? How did it slip through the idea of safety in the neighborhood we used to have?

I don't understand how this is real, the scale is inconceivable (how can so many people be so totally demented) it's the craziest thing I cannot comprehend.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#75

Post by kelnos »

delichon wrote: post #2

A large part of the protectiveness of children is about the fertility trend. Parents with four children think about safety very differently than parents with probably ever only one. I saw this on my home street growing up. The girl next door was an only child who her parents hovered over relentlessly. When I was ten, with three brothers, and told mom I was going exploring, she made sure I had a quarter to phone home…

Eh, I don't think that's it. I come from a two-child household, and our parents weren't particularly precious about our safety in the neighborhood in the 80s and 90s. I knew plenty of other two- and one-child families that were the same.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#76

Post by paulryanrogers »

ninalanyon wrote: post #31
obscurette wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in my sixties and my experience is same. But now we live in the world, where my granddaughter (12) got into real trouble because a birthday present I gave her – a real Leatherman (pink of course). Of course she brought it to the school, it was confiscated, she, her parents and I was questioned by police etc.

In Norway my children sometimes came home from primary school (ages five to twelve) with notes saying things like: "We've planned a trip to the woods for next week, it's expected to be minus twenty Celsius so please make sure they have appropriate clothing, hats, gloves, boots. Also we will have a fire so make sure they bring some sausages and a hunting knife so they can cut sticks for the fire and to hold the sausag…

In the 90s I was taught knife safety before being given blades. Had to pass a test before we were given them. Seems pretty reasonable to require that to handle something that could kill another person so quickly, easily, and even by accident.

Also much cheaper than casts, physical therapy, and possibly permanent damage. An ounce of prevention and all that.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#77

Post by Cheetah26 »

For those who grew up in a time and place where you were able to wander without supervision, how far away were your friends? Follow up, how much traveling did you do on your own?

For me growing up in 2000's suburbia, the closest kids around my age that I knew of were about one mile and major road crossing away, but to get to a friend it could be a lot more. I think kids out in a group doesn't feel like a safety concern to most people even now, but if they have to travel 5+ miles solo just to meet up with one other person, that's where the issue might lie.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#78

Post by protocolture »

I have concerns in this area myself but I find the attempt to create an opposing ideology "safetyism" and then attribute unrelated stuff like trigger warnings to that ideology to be unnecessarily reductive.

I call this "Shitarticlism" and it includes OP's article and also a bunch of clickbait I read. And Microsoft Learn.

If I work from home I see tons of unaccompanied kids going to school in the morning. I live in what is statistically the most crime ridden area in my city. My toddler has a drive for independence that will probably lead to him doing this himself in a few short years just need to impress road safety on him a bit more.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#79

Post by jaboostin »

keepamovin wrote: post #74
PantaloonFlames wrote: post #22

The article is confused. The opinion is, it's so much safer _now_ than it was in the 1970s, it makes no sense to restrict children's wanderings. But the article doesn't consider whether restricting children's wanderings is the REASON it is so much safer for children now. "We have so many fire-safety rules in the building codes in Seattle. But get this: we haven't had any major fires since 1889! It's obvious we don't…

Tangential to risks raised in the article I guess, but I cannot understand something that's happening in the US: it's crazy how many demented people there are. That there is a market that captures children in order to traffick them for sex; that there are hundreds of people doing this regularly being wrapped up by LE raids, and dozens of children freed; that these raids happen on the frequency of weeks, or months; th…

100,000/yr is insane, where are you getting that stat? Best I could find is ~250 abducted per year in the US, not specifically for trafficking. There are 200-300,000 reported missing per year but >90% are runaways and return.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#80

Post by protocolture »

Cheetah26 wrote: post #77

For those who grew up in a time and place where you were able to wander without supervision, how far away were your friends? Follow up, how much traveling did you do on your own? For me growing up in 2000's suburbia, the closest kids around my age that I knew of were about one mile and major road crossing away, but to get to a friend it could be a lot more. I think kids out in a group doesn't feel like a safety conce…

I used to live a kilometer away from school and would walk/ride there myself from 9 or so years.

Then when I was ~12 we moved further away. Probably 3-4 kilometers and I would still ride in.

I had friends scattered all over the area between my place and school but I never needed any assistance from them.

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