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When (if ever) it's appropriate to make jokes before the US Supreme Court

scotusblog.com

71–76 of 76 posts

Re: When (if ever) it's appropriate to make jokes before the US Supreme Court

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"gifts to judges from people not involved in cases is not bribery" Uhhh, yeah that's a big there bud. If a prominent party member gifts you lavish vacations and you subsequently decide cases along party lines, what else would you call that?

Citation needed? Refer to a dictionary ;). I think the big question mark is on "you subsequently decide cases along party lines." Citation needed? This I think is the major stumbling block in the public perception of the court. It's ideological divides aren't always the one's in the vernacular. I looked at one of the more vehement and thorough articles alleging the thing you are, and it was pretty unconvincing: https…

Why is a typical public servant not allowed to accept even a $20 gift to avoid the appearance of impropriety, but the Venerable Judge Thomas can accept... ...5 MILLION DOLLARS worth of gifts, nearly half of all known gifts to the Supreme Court and many of them undeclared? What in the actual fuck?

Describe this situation to anyone not deep in a political bubble and see what they call it.

Re: When (if ever) it's appropriate to make jokes before the US Supreme Court

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who doesn’t get free yacht trips from their buddies? I’m curious what you think will happen with Crow’s gifts if Thomas doesn’t strategically retire this term.

I'm not sure what you mean by happen "with." But, as a random online, my prediction is that nothing will happen. The whole media hubbub came and went, and IIRC Thomas slowed down the gift getting afterwards. I don't see anyone bringing suit or admin action or something.... I guess it's not impossible if and when Democrats gain control in 2028 they'll try something, but probably not, given the time separation and the…

By "with", their meaning is, will the gifts continue if the recipient is no longer a Supreme Court justice?

Re: When (if ever) it's appropriate to make jokes before the US Supreme Court

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who doesn’t get free yacht trips from their buddies? I’m curious what you think will happen with Crow’s gifts if Thomas doesn’t strategically retire this term.

I'm not sure what you mean by happen "with." But, as a random online, my prediction is that nothing will happen. The whole media hubbub came and went, and IIRC Thomas slowed down the gift getting afterwards. I don't see anyone bringing suit or admin action or something.... I guess it's not impossible if and when Democrats gain control in 2028 they'll try something, but probably not, given the time separation and the…

If Thomas becomes disfavored by rich conservative activists because he refuses to retire when Trump has an opportunity to safely replace him with somebody decades younger, do you think those rich conservative activists will keep spending millions of dollars on him?

Re: When (if ever) it's appropriate to make jokes before the US Supreme Court

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"gifts to judges from people not involved in cases is not bribery" Uhhh, yeah that's a big there bud. If a prominent party member gifts you lavish vacations and you subsequently decide cases along party lines, what else would you call that?

Citation needed? Refer to a dictionary ;). I think the big question mark is on "you subsequently decide cases along party lines." Citation needed? This I think is the major stumbling block in the public perception of the court. It's ideological divides aren't always the one's in the vernacular. I looked at one of the more vehement and thorough articles alleging the thing you are, and it was pretty unconvincing: https…

[deleted]

Re: When (if ever) it's appropriate to make jokes before the US Supreme Court

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should be careful not to imply that the gift givers were involved in any Supreme Court cases Why does this matter? I'm not involved in any SC case but if I showed up at Clarence Thomas's door with $10 asking him to rule a certain way on a case I'm interested in, it would be called bribery by any sane definition.

Sure, but as far as I can tell, there's no evidence that happened. And I think I would have heard about it if the journalists were able to mention it. The correct metaphor is if you had an interest in a case, gave Clarence Thomas $10 and said get yourself a nice froyo.

I didn't say it happened, I asked why you think it matters that the bribe wasn't given by someone involved in the case.

It is possible that a bribe was given by someone who is not party to the case and the comment I replied to was explaining that someone who is not party to the case was not giving a bribe, by virtue of the fact they weren't party to the case. I was hoping you could explain your perspective in the context I described but it seems I stumped you, hence the distraction about froyo and no substance in the reply.

Re: When (if ever) it's appropriate to make jokes before the US Supreme Court

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but as far as I can tell, there's no evidence that happened. And I think I would have heard about it if the journalists were able to mention it. The correct metaphor is if you had an interest in a case, gave Clarence Thomas $10 and said get yourself a nice froyo.

I didn't say it happened, I asked why you think it matters that the bribe wasn't given by someone involved in the case. It is possible that a bribe was given by someone who is not party to the case and the comment I replied to was explaining that someone who is not party to the case was not giving a bribe, by virtue of the fact they weren't party to the case. I was hoping you could explain your perspective in the con…

I think we need to review what is being discussed. The comment to which I replied said:

> They're probably referring to the millions of dollars of gifts Clarence Thomas received over the years, often just prior to ruling in the gift giver's favor.

I was pointing out that, despite the implication, those gift givers were not involved in SC cases, to cast doubt on the notion that these gifts were bribes. You countered with the example of a gift giver who has an interest in a case and expresses an interest in a case being ruled a certain way. Sure, that could be a bribe. But my response emphasized that your example doesn't accurately describe what we know about the gifts from Crow.

If you read that CNBC article you will find no mention of bribery, influence peddling, or any cases that Harlan Crow had an interest in. I even took the trouble to find some case Harlan Crow might have an interest in and found this article: https://truthout.org/articles/report-harlan-crow-has-a-stake... The links were pretty tenuous to me.

To summarize, what the CNBC article identifies is lots of gift giving. We have no evidence the giver conditioned these gifts on an understanding of ruling a certain way on particular cases. Furthermore (IIRC from reading scotusblog) the decision record on the potentially sketchy cases (Loper Bright, CFPB, Acheson Hotels, & Moore) does not reflect a significant change in Thomas' behavior in some cases, nor a diversion from the unanimous decision of the court in others.

In other words, we've not reached the question of who can be a bribe giver, because we haven't identified a bribe, as far as I can tell. But I would agree that a gift given by a nonparty can be a bribe if conditioned properly. I apologize if my initial comment gave the impression otherwise, so as to induce a kind of goalpost-moving which might be happening now. I wasn't as familiar with the details until now when I could make a stronger statement, so I began with something basic.

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