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Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

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Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#71

Post by vkou »

cf100clunk wrote: post #57
vkou wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

95% of Alberta is unceded First Nations land. It is not a valid country without it - without the consent of the relevant First Nations, a separated Alberta would be a few municipalities enveloped by... Canada. This is not a concern in Quebec, because the overwhelming majority of it is ceded land. If ducks had two wheels, they'd be bicycles, and if there was anything in common between the two provinces, you might have…

As far as I know, First Nations lands in Alberta are indeed ''ceded'' under Treaties 6, 7, and 8 with the Crown. British Columbia is a province with a huge proportion of unceded land, but not Alberta.

The treaties with the crown require the crown consult with them before adjusting them. This means that Albertan secession can't happen without their consent, as it would by definition, completely and unilaterally adjust the terms of those treaties.

The treaties were made in perpetuity, and if you are going to not hold up the crown's end of the promises, the FN's side - giving the crown and Alberta governance over the land - needs to be reverted as well.

Contracts require both sides to adhere to them.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#72

Post by cwillu »

armenarmen wrote: post #28

I met a Québécois woman years ago that said their own independence movement was shut down in part because of new immigrants to Canada not wanting to leave the commonwealth. No clue if that’s right or not. But given how much of a cash cow the western provinces are for Canada, and the mega spike in immigration it makes me wonder

Net federal tax by province for 2024:

   East:
   ON:  92,392M
   QC:  43,549M
   NS:   4,464M
   NB:   5,167M
   NL:   2,467M
   PE:     680M

   West:
   BC:  33,037M
   AB:  29,900M
   SK:   5,579M
   MB:   5,745M

   North:
   NT:     273M
   NU:     162M
   YT:     254M
To call the west a “cash cow” is just a bit misleading, even if you grant the separatists British Columbia, which is frankly a laughable notion.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#73

Post by tokai »

SecretDreams wrote: post #50
rasgkl wrote: post #11

U.S. wants more oil and pays influencers. Even if anyone is a legitimate Albertan separatist, voting in favor of it in this political climate is self-destructive.

There's, sadly, been a significant uptick in self destructive voting tendencies for certain voting demographics as of late.

Mainly UK and her former colonies.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#74

Post by cf100clunk »

nish__ wrote: post #59
nonethewiser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there actually even a legal process for leaving Canada? I would assume you can't just decide to leave. EDIT: oh, there is a process. thats the Clarity Act. This seems extremely surprising - I've never heard of this sort of thing before with any other country.

It's a thing because Quebec has tried to separate before.

Not a vote to separate. Quebec only tried to win a referendum giving the Province the authority from voters to approach the federal government with negotiations to achieve separation. Its more than a pedantic difference.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#75

Post by [deleted] »

petcat wrote: post #15

10% of the population produces nearly 20% of the country's GDP. That kind of lopsided representation is dangerous breeding ground for contempt, so this kind of thing is not really surprising. Will be interesting to see where it goes. Nobody thought there was any realistic chance of the UK leaving the EU either...

[deleted]

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#76

Post by [deleted] »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #40
briga wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Albertan/Western Canadian identity is totally a thing, and has been around for a lot longer than this latest round of separatist sentiment. The west has been griping about unfair treatment from the federal government for over a century now, so 1) this isn't primarily driven by foreign interference and 2) it's not coming out of nowhere. Whether it's a good idea is a different question. I doubt most Albertans want to b…

Alberta was created out of several divisions of the NWT barely over 100 years ago, formed by the federal government of Canada. It's not a thing. Hatred or criticism of Toronto and Ontario at large is a thing. But that's a thing everywhere. It's a fundamental part of the Canadian identity.

[deleted]

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#77

Post by boelboel »

croes wrote: post #64
armenarmen wrote: post #28

I met a Québécois woman years ago that said their own independence movement was shut down in part because of new immigrants to Canada not wanting to leave the commonwealth. No clue if that’s right or not. But given how much of a cash cow the western provinces are for Canada, and the mega spike in immigration it makes me wonder

Blaming immigrants … never gets old, does it?

The part about immigration and Quebec is right though, doesn't mean the immigrants are to blame.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#78

Post by rdtsc »

With all the turmoil in US and other parts of the world I was completely unaware Albertans want to leave.

> Smith acknowledged some of those concerns on Thursday, arguing that the federal government has tried to "move towards a more centralised American-style system" and is infringing on provincial jurisdiction.

Ah interesting. I always thought US is rather decentralized with each state with its own government and laws and such. But I guess that's when compared with individual European countries, not Canada.

Then, I wonder if they would like to still have a king https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada as a new country, or would they drop that as well? If they want to drop that, that faction could lean into the current US current protest movement and put up "No Kings" signs and hold rallies and such. It would be good enough for a chuckle at least.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#79

Post by JumpCrisscross »

gmerc wrote: post #67
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is truly trolling escaping the Internet The referendum? Or calling for imprisoning people for wrongthink?

You misspelled “treason”

> You misspelled “treason”

Wrongthink (well, technically, crimethink) is canonically treason. Nutters on Reddit calling everything treason isn’t new.

In this case, I’m failing to see how someone—who, granted, appears to be a nutter—following a lawful process is treason.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#80

Post by cf100clunk »

martythemaniak wrote: post #47
nonethewiser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there actually even a legal process for leaving Canada? I would assume you can't just decide to leave. EDIT: oh, there is a process. thats the Clarity Act. This seems extremely surprising - I've never heard of this sort of thing before with any other country.

It should be the least surprising thing about Canada - it has been dealing with separatist referendums for decades.

One such referendum, in 1995, was preceded by decades of discussion in Quebec of the pros and cons that triggered a 1980 referendum.
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