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A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

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Re: A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

#71

Post by redeeman »

uecker wrote: post #67
redeeman wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what kind of thinking process is this? do you for real think any KDE project member has thought "yeah, I want to hurt some of our users". this is not how it works. They have actual real data from real users about how many use wayland vs xorg, they also sit on the bugtracker, and they sit with the code. they also have very clear knowledge of how much time they can dedicate to make KDE better, both for themselves and E…

Sure, they know best of course ;-) This is the arrogance and gas lightning we are talking about. But I am not complaining about KDE, they can do whatever they feel best for their projec.t I do not use KDE and - if they make decisions like this - never will. But please do not tell me my real world experience is an imagination because someone else decided what is best for me. This is like Microsoft telling me I need to…

its not just KDE, its pretty much everyone in the space.

I explicitly said im sure some have worse experience with wayland, perhaps read what I wrote?

Are you denying wayland is net benefit for the majority?

Re: A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

#72

Post by andrewstuart »

uecker wrote: post #56
redeeman wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess things like HDR support, high bitdepth, per-screen refreshrate/scaling, and all those things are just "no apparant advantage" to you. Thats okay, just understand that it DOES matter to some people. what also matters is the actual developers doing the work, which GREATLY prefer wayland

It might matter to some but not to many, and in practice the pain imposed on many others could have been avoided by simply improving X. That developers already like to rewrite things is well known, but nobody should pay for this.

My Wayland development work has gone extremely well.

I’m amazed at how smooth it is and how much just works.

Not my usual Linux development experience with xorg.

Re: A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

#73

Post by tosti »

redeeman wrote: post #64
tosti wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly this kind of arrogant attitude that makes me hate everything from dbus onward.

what is arrogant? that some features matter to some users? or that developers that work for free have things that matter to them in trying to develop better code?

There's really no need for any finger-pointing while bragging about features.

Re: A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

#74

Post by uecker »

redeeman wrote: post #71
uecker wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, they know best of course ;-) This is the arrogance and gas lightning we are talking about. But I am not complaining about KDE, they can do whatever they feel best for their projec.t I do not use KDE and - if they make decisions like this - never will. But please do not tell me my real world experience is an imagination because someone else decided what is best for me. This is like Microsoft telling me I need to…

its not just KDE, its pretty much everyone in the space. I explicitly said im sure some have worse experience with wayland, perhaps read what I wrote? Are you denying wayland is net benefit for the majority?

Yes, I do not believe for a second that wayland is a net benefit for the majority. Every improvement one can have in Wayland could have been implemented in X without breaking compatibility, without causing all the regressions and limitations that are waived away so arrogantly, without fracturing the community, and also ten years earlier.

Re: A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

#75

Post by array_key_first »

uecker wrote: post #53
kiwijamo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Wayland for some years (at least since Debian switched to it as their default) and not had any issues with it. I think complaints were more common about X, and Wayland has resolved a lot of it for the average user. For example my switch to Wayland was the first time I had 100% working video playback on Intel iGPUs without tinkering with conf files. I appreciate there are still some edge cases where X1…

Is is a regular occurrence that students in my lab that use or switch to Wayland still run into problems. Switching back to X11 reliably works as a fix. The sad thing is that there is also no apparent advantage to Wayland, it is just pushed down to us via distributions.

I've been using Wayland for a while now on Debian as of 13, and the advantage is that it just works so much better.

Animations are much smoother, frames are dropped much less, and there's very little artifacts. It's almost uncanny how good desktop compositing looks right now.

Naturally, some people don't care or don't notice. I notice because I run everything at 240hz and I'm a freak. But, for me, so far everything has worked in wayland. I have not had to boot up an x11 session on Debian 13 with KDE. And, mind you, this is Debian - not bleeding edge. But, screen sharing works, audio works, everything.

Re: A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

#76

Post by array_key_first »

tosti wrote: post #73
redeeman wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is arrogant? that some features matter to some users? or that developers that work for free have things that matter to them in trying to develop better code?

There's really no need for any finger-pointing while bragging about features.

It's not bragging - the commenter stated that Wayland has no advantage, which isn't true. It has many features which just are not possible in X. Many of these features are par for the course on Windows and MacOS. They do matter to some people, but not all of course.

Re: A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

#77

Post by array_key_first »

avadodin wrote: post #54
ryukoposting wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. Wayland has really gotten its shit together in the last 5-ish years. A lot of the desktop ecosystem has matured in the last few years, actually. I maintain that the Linux desktop in 2021 was actually less usable than it was in 2016. But things have really turned around since then.

I'm not particularly fond of X11 but barely working in 2026 is hardly an endorsement of the whole project. A good replacement of X11 would have had a well designed local mode that abstracted modern hardware in all configurations and an actually good network protocol. We're left with a barely-working local mode with awful X11 stuck on top. And we've moved to it for purely political reasons.

The "purely political" reasons is that nobody wants to work on X.org implementation. Which, I guess, is technically political? Maybe? But it has real world consequences.

Like okay yeah we could all just stick to X. But in order to do that we need X to be developed, which it's not.

Re: A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

#78

Post by avadodin »

array_key_first wrote: post #77
avadodin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not particularly fond of X11 but barely working in 2026 is hardly an endorsement of the whole project. A good replacement of X11 would have had a well designed local mode that abstracted modern hardware in all configurations and an actually good network protocol. We're left with a barely-working local mode with awful X11 stuck on top. And we've moved to it for purely political reasons.

The "purely political" reasons is that nobody wants to work on X.org implementation. Which, I guess, is technically political? Maybe? But it has real world consequences. Like okay yeah we could all just stick to X. But in order to do that we need X to be developed, which it's not.

I suppose being actively developed has positive connotations even in my own mind.

I don't think we disagree on facts at all.

Re: A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

#79

Post by tosti »

array_key_first wrote: post #76
tosti wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really no need for any finger-pointing while bragging about features.

It's not bragging - the commenter stated that Wayland has no advantage, which isn't true. It has many features which just are not possible in X. Many of these features are par for the course on Windows and MacOS. They do matter to some people, but not all of course.

Bragging isn't the problem.

Re: A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft

#80

Post by arikrahman »

mghackerlady wrote: post #50
arikrahman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emacs can do everything and probably should though

If it handles text, it is in the realm of things you can reasonably prefer to do in emacs

Heck, I'll let AI hack it apart and turn it into an NLE video editor or 3D modeler if I could.
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