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Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

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Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#71

Post by ericmay »

epistasis wrote: post #64
ericmay wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATO just today as reported by Bloomberg said that if the Strait isn't open by July that it will take or consider taking action. [1] Your view of the situation doesn't match reality. Separately, we still have like 11 aircraft carriers and our entire military still in tact. Nothing has changed with respect to our power. If you think otherwise, you are simply wrong. There's no other way to put it. [1] https://www.bloom…

Oh, 8 weeks, and they'll think about doing something? Huh, yeah, I'm sure that strong statement will have a big impact. > Separately, we still have like 11 aircraft carriers and our entire military still in tact. Nothing has changed with respect to our power. If you think otherwise, you are simply wrong. There's no other way to put it. Naval power has shifted massively over the past four years due to massive technolo…

> Oh, 8 weeks, and they'll think about doing something? Huh, yeah, I'm sure that strong statement will have a big impact.

It shows that you're wrong about the diplomatic situation. 8 weeks isn't that long of a timeframe. It takes weeks just to move some assets in place. You don't have a good understanding of how long it takes to do these kinds of things.

> Naval power has shifted massively over the past four years due to massive technology change, and the US has done nothing to adapt or learn from its

Factually incorrect. First you can't make a claim that the US has done nothing to adapt or learn from the ongoing war in Ukraine. The reason you can't make that claim, aside from the fact that well, any single change in tactics would prove you wrong, is because the US still to this day is deploying weapons and testing weapons and capabilities in Ukraine on the battlefield.

> former ally, Ukraine.

Also factually incorrect because Ukraine was never a US ally. Secondarily we are still supporting Ukraine and without our help in the early days of the war they would have very likely fallen under a renewed Iron Curtain. America and England were rushing missiles while the rest of Europe was sending helmets and debating whether Russia was even going to invade.

> You are simply wrong and outdate in your thinking

Incorrect. You're parroting catch-phrases and what others tell you and not thinking through things for yourself here.

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#72

Post by ericmay »

ceejayoz wrote: post #68
ericmay wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATO just today as reported by Bloomberg said that if the Strait isn't open by July that it will take or consider taking action. [1] Your view of the situation doesn't match reality. Separately, we still have like 11 aircraft carriers and our entire military still in tact. Nothing has changed with respect to our power. If you think otherwise, you are simply wrong. There's no other way to put it. [1] https://www.bloom…

> consider taking action Even if they decide to do so, why would we expect them to be more successful than the US military - which outspends the entire rest of NATO - at it? > Separately, we still have like 11 aircraft carriers… Yeah, and we're straining to keep them handling the load. https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2026/05/11/epic-fur... https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/16/us/politics/uss-ford-fire...

> Even if they decide to do so, why would we expect them to be more successful than the US military - which outspends the entire rest of NATO - at it?

More ships always helps - they wouldn't be doing it without the US, it would be with the US.

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#73

Post by cgh »

adrr wrote: post #57
znnajdla wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. Saudi Arabia is a base for US operations.

Saudi and Iran hatred goes back long before that. Shia vs Sunni. Genesis of most of the problems in middle east. Syrian civil war: Sunni vs Alawites(Shia offshoot). Yemen civil war: Sunni vs Shia. When a mosque is bombed somewhere in middle east, its sunni vs Shia. It makes for some interesting decisions on support from the US side. We are now backing the new president of Syria who spent had spent a decade killing Am…

[dead]

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#74

Post by TheGRS »

ericmay wrote: post #67
TheGRS wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a really tough time looking at the current situation and not seeing the USA knocked down at least several pegs. In regard to China, my read is they are gaining more power from this episode and allowing the US step on rakes than they would from a Taiwan invasion. Not all power is measured in military might, that seems to be the mistake the Trump administration has made time and time again.

China imports oil from Iran and Venezuela. China's economy is not doing so hot because by being dependent on exports with less than ideal domestic consumption you wind up with, say, 17% youth unemployment. You're reading the news and hearing about all the bad things about America because that's what everyone cares about talking about and what everyone knows the most about. Most people outside of China can't speak Man…

I read the news and make my own judgements based on events. I can read how the president has said we have reached a deal and threaten to destroy Iran over breaking the deal over the course of a day. And he's done that many times over in the span of the last 2 months. If I watched any other leader do that I would certainly be questioning their judgement and ability to lead and I would definitely question why their organization hasn't ousted them.

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#75

Post by ceejayoz »

ericmay wrote: post #72
ceejayoz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> consider taking action Even if they decide to do so, why would we expect them to be more successful than the US military - which outspends the entire rest of NATO - at it? > Separately, we still have like 11 aircraft carriers… Yeah, and we're straining to keep them handling the load. https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2026/05/11/epic-fur... https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/16/us/politics/uss-ford-fire...

> Even if they decide to do so, why would we expect them to be more successful than the US military - which outspends the entire rest of NATO - at it? More ships always helps - they wouldn't be doing it without the US, it would be with the US.

> More ships always helps...

So the 11 aircraft carriers are not enough, one might say?

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#76

Post by ericmay »

bonsai_spool wrote: post #66
ericmay wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these things are true, it's just propaganda. > The US has never looked, or been, weaker than it is right now. Nothing has fundamentally changed with respect to American power. If this was true, that America has never been weaker than it is right now, why wouldn't China just go ahead and invade Taiwan? This is the perfect opportunity! Or is it that the US is so strong that even at its weakest point it can dete…

I don't have a strong interest in this issue but it would appear your responses aren't incorporating the full scope of recent facts: > Nothing has fundamentally changed with respect to American power Yes, actually - Iran is charging tolls and was not doing that before. This is in the face of an American naval blockade right in their neighborhood. That is an affront to power, at least for the moment. The China point i…

> Yes, actually - Iran is charging tolls and was not doing that before. This is in the face of an American naval blockade right in their neighborhood. That is an affront to power, at least for the moment.

I send a bill to every car that passes by my street. It's weird, none of them ever pay it. Iran can charge whatever it wants, but as long as America holds the blockade it doesn't matter. There's a misunderstanding that Iran "controls" the Strait of Hormuz. It doesn't. Control doesn't mean you simply stop others from exercising action, because if that's the case the US is also stopping any ships that Iran allows and is therefore in control.

> The China point is really immaterial to the instant issue of the Strait, but even there China is very obviously growing more aggressive (cf the recent trip of the Taiwanese president where he had to sneak out of his nation).

Well you can't really separate China out from the initial comment I responded to. How is American power the weakest it has ever been but then it's also not changed at all with respect to China? These kinds of statements just don't make sense. It's the kind of thing that feels good to say but is wrong.

> Yes, but now the Strait transit is being dictated by the new rulers.

But it's not because the US controls it too.

> Iran has bombed over a dozen US installations, probably the greatest damage to US military installations in recent memory, if ever.

Yea, now imagine Iran quadruples its drone and missile stockpile and then closes the Strait and then proceeds with accelerating development of nuclear weapons. I'm not sure why folks seem to lack the capacity to project future actions

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#77

Post by mandevil »

gosub100 wrote: post #43
10000truths wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to stop Iran from using the threat of cutting those cables as leverage? A speedboat and a depth charge are all it takes, and neither are particularly difficult to make.

The problem is that you can only do it once.

The threat of force is much more potent than the actual use of force: this has been the delicate dance that the US has used with Iran since the Revolution.

It took an idiot to try and actually use the full force of the USAF against Iran and reveal that the force was manageable- not great, but not going to topple the regime. And once that force was used and Iran's leaders realized it could be survived, that threat became much weaker, forcing a decision onto that previously mentioned idiot, he could either escalate to use greater force (some form of ground troops) or admit that he made a mistake and lost a war. And I suspect that the same will be true for Iran: the threat of cutting those cables is far more potent than the actual effects of cutting the cables.

The Internet is, it turns out, pretty good at routing around damage. The Russians have done some cable cutting in the Baltic Sea and it is annoying but it is not a winning move.

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#78

Post by epistasis »

ericmay wrote: post #71
epistasis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, 8 weeks, and they'll think about doing something? Huh, yeah, I'm sure that strong statement will have a big impact. > Separately, we still have like 11 aircraft carriers and our entire military still in tact. Nothing has changed with respect to our power. If you think otherwise, you are simply wrong. There's no other way to put it. Naval power has shifted massively over the past four years due to massive technolo…

> Oh, 8 weeks, and they'll think about doing something? Huh, yeah, I'm sure that strong statement will have a big impact. It shows that you're wrong about the diplomatic situation. 8 weeks isn't that long of a timeframe. It takes weeks just to move some assets in place. You don't have a good understanding of how long it takes to do these kinds of things. > Naval power has shifted massively over the past four years du…

> 8 weeks isn't that long of a timeframe.

To respond to the closure of a key naval route that supplies 20% of world oil supply? After months of closure already, with zero response?

This entire thing was started with zero warning, as far as your "diplomatic timelines" go.

Asserting weird and strange judgement calls with extreme confidence, and belittling others' judgement at the same time, is a very weak argumentation style. Perhaps you could provide some evidence that a "watch out we'll talk about this in 8 weeks" is a strong sort of statement of any sort?

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#79

Post by ericmay »

ceejayoz wrote: post #75
ericmay wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if they decide to do so, why would we expect them to be more successful than the US military - which outspends the entire rest of NATO - at it? More ships always helps - they wouldn't be doing it without the US, it would be with the US.

> More ships always helps... So the 11 aircraft carriers are not enough, one might say?

You're familiar with the mythical man month, right?

If we park all 11 aircraft carriers outside of Iran, how will we have them deployed to support interests elsewhere?

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#80

Post by ceejayoz »

ericmay wrote: post #79
ceejayoz wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More ships always helps... So the 11 aircraft carriers are not enough, one might say?

You're familiar with the mythical man month, right? If we park all 11 aircraft carriers outside of Iran, how will we have them deployed to support interests elsewhere?

You have correctly identified why people are asserting to you that the US looks weak over this, yes.
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