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Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

bbc.com

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Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#71

Post by dacops »

compounding_it wrote: post #38
dacops wrote: post #8

Only veterans? I wonder about the editorial choice to use veterans rather than, say, women who have PTSD from assaults, which is a much larger group of people. (Approximately 4% of US men and 8% of US women experience PTSD every year across all reasons like accidents, sexual assaults, combat, etc.) Presumably this treatment would help everyone? Or is it somehow supporting only vets?

The research on ptsd began with US veterans afaik. It’s probably the group that is most studied for it and also receives trials. The US also spends a large amount of money on each veteran. If they can find a cure for trauma they would benefit hugely from it. The side effect of this is that others would benefit as well.

That's damning in another way -- it suggests we aren't spending money on the other, larger groups of PTSD survivors.

Shame it has to be a side effect.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#72

Post by Aurornis »

reenorap wrote: post #36

The article acts like ibogaine is a newly discovered drug. This is an old hallucinagenix drug that has helped thousands of people get over ptsd. The only thing holding this back is government bureaucracy and red tape. I’m happy that people will get there chance to benefit from this after decades of stupid government policy.

> The only thing holding this back is government bureaucracy and red tape.

Not really true. There have been clinical trials for Ibogaine over the years in the US and abroad. The United States isn’t the only country capable of running trials.

A big blocker for ibogaine is that it’s cardiotoxic. Multiple deaths have occurred within clinical trials for ibogaine. It’s really hard to justify and get approval for additional clinical trials for a drug that has caused deaths even in small trials.

There are analogs of ibogaine being studied, too. These are designed to lack the cardiac properties of ibogaine and would hold much more promise. There’s a real problem of mistrust with “artificial chemicals” that causes this to be ignored while ibogaine gets the attention. I suppose that’s to be expected with politicians driving research.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#73

Post by cog-flex »

Aurornis wrote: post #59

An important warning: Ibogaine has been associated with a considerable number of deaths. Some of the deaths even occurred within the context of clinical trials, under medical supervision. Ibogaine has some chemical properties that are highly undesirable for medication because it directly interacts with the cardiac system as a side effect. It is actually an old drug with a long history of being tried for different con…

Please provide a source for your claim that deaths have occurred in clinical trials under medical supervision.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#74

Post by TuringNYC »

kreyenborgi wrote: post #63
reenorap wrote: post #36

The article acts like ibogaine is a newly discovered drug. This is an old hallucinagenix drug that has helped thousands of people get over ptsd. The only thing holding this back is government bureaucracy and red tape. I’m happy that people will get there chance to benefit from this after decades of stupid government policy.

> red tape Just frame it as "this drug lets you send scarred soldiers right back into the fray for pennies" and see that red tape dissolve

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7008682/?ref_=nm_flmg_job_1_acc...

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#75

Post by nkrisc »

dacops wrote: post #70
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was a study on ptsd in assault survivors you could make the exact same comment asking why they didn’t try it in veterans (and I have no reason to doubt someone would)

What a strange and presumptive thing to say. I'm wondering why not all PTSD cases, why specifically this relatively small group? Like, obviously we should treat veterans with PTSD, but the article is unclear about whether it's just them.

> I'm wondering why not all PTSD cases, why specifically this relatively small group?

Because then it’s another variable in the study.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#76

Post by [deleted] »

butvacuum wrote: post #55
H8crilA wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you read some publications on the topic, and not internet forum conspiracies.

Sorry if I find that things like https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39804212/ existing in checks 2025 repulsive. Especially when those are the same arguments put forward for lobotomies. If somebody is capable of _ELECTING_ ECT, fine. But don't pretend that dosing somebody unconcious with benzos so they Can't seize, and reducing shock duration and intensity so theres no skin burning makes intentionaly brain damaging some…

[deleted]

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#77

Post by H8crilA »

dummy808 wrote: post #53
H8crilA wrote: post #13

I always wonder why ECT doesn't get more press. It very very often works on depression (and bipolar disorder, catatonia; anything affective-related really), although the effects may wane over time when the treatment is discontinued. Memory loss is one of the side effects, and it could actually be beneficial here.

This is nuts. Bringing ECT into the discussion of a novel psychedelic medicine. Totally different ballparks. Well-established results vs. very little formal research. Have you had ECT, or do you know anyone who has? It's a last resort for horrible depression and not much else. It has huge risks, and while it does often make these people's lives manageable, it shouldn't be in the same discussion as a medication that's…

I do wonder how many more people would be open to ECT if instead of using the electrical pulse we would give people some drug that causes a brief seizure. Right after the anesthesia, of course, just like now - but there's no electricity involved. I don't even know if such a safe drug exists.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#78

Post by Aurornis »

cog-flex wrote: post #73
Aurornis wrote: post #59

An important warning: Ibogaine has been associated with a considerable number of deaths. Some of the deaths even occurred within the context of clinical trials, under medical supervision. Ibogaine has some chemical properties that are highly undesirable for medication because it directly interacts with the cardiac system as a side effect. It is actually an old drug with a long history of being tried for different con…

Please provide a source for your claim that deaths have occurred in clinical trials under medical supervision .

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35012793/

I’m sure someone will find some reason to dismiss or excuse these deaths, as anyone who brings up the negatives of psychedelics is usually shouted down on this site.

The cardiotoxic effects of ibogaine are well known, though. This is why analogs without the cardiotoxic effect are an active area of study.

Of all of the incredible claims about ibogaine in this thread it’s sad that the only one where sources are being demanded is for the high risk of death, which even among ibogaine communities is well known.

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#79

Post by cindyllm »

dacops wrote: post #71
compounding_it wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The research on ptsd began with US veterans afaik. It’s probably the group that is most studied for it and also receives trials. The US also spends a large amount of money on each veteran. If they can find a cure for trauma they would benefit hugely from it. The side effect of this is that others would benefit as well.

That's damning in another way -- it suggests we aren't spending money on the other, larger groups of PTSD survivors. Shame it has to be a side effect.

[dead]

Re: Trials on veterans suggest ibogaine could provide a new treatment for PTSD

#80

Post by b00ty4breakfast »

reenorap wrote: post #36

The article acts like ibogaine is a newly discovered drug. This is an old hallucinagenix drug that has helped thousands of people get over ptsd. The only thing holding this back is government bureaucracy and red tape. I’m happy that people will get there chance to benefit from this after decades of stupid government policy.

I have a friend who received ibogaine as a treatment, in mexico, for opiate addiction and it is not at all like your average hallucinogenic drug.

for starters, she had to go through cardiac tests before they would even administer the stuff because it can cause serious cardiac symptoms, up to and including death. Somebody in her group was kicked out because they had been using meth the week of the trip (no pun intended). They were telling them that even too much caffeine could increase their risk of cardiac symptoms.

Then the trip itself was like 48 hours and it wasn't a fun trip like acid or mushrooms. The few things she would tell me about were awful, and she still won't talk about most of it almost a decade after the fact.

Some drugs don't need to be caught up in federal approval but ibogaine is absolutely a drug that needs the red tape and all the pomp and circumstance of FDA approval.

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