Live data from Hacker News

Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

cnbc.com

71–80 of 223 posts

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "recall" is a specific regulated action. It is announced as a recall because that is what is legally required according to the NHTSA. There is no wiggle room here.

Yes, we need to change the rules to create a distinction. The meaning of “recall” in common understanding vs. industry has diverged, and it’s almost certainly causing car manufacturers to do suboptimal things to avoid having “recall” tied to their name in the press.

There is no issue in understanding unless you are talking about only reading the headline that a media outlet decides to use. How about we all just use our brains and understand that things can be fixed in different ways, but it is important that they get fixed.

Suboptimal behavior from companies is what leads to recalls. I cant even understand an example of what you are talking about there. And now you want to carry water for the industry by creating some diluted term. Does the car have a safety issue that is should not? Then its a recall. The manufacture can now decide how to resolve it. Sometimes that can be done via an OTA update.

I think its is in the interest of consumers to know ALL the ways these corps are putting your life at risk through their engineering efforts or lack there of. If your car manufacture is doing weekly OTA bug fixes on the vehicle that you drive you kids in everyday, you (the apparent beta tester) should sure as well know. Then you can make an informed decision.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#73
post #2

That's a tough problem - distinguishing wet pavement from deep water. Humans make that mistake frequently. Autonomous vehicles should probably be equipped with a water sensor. (We did that in our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle back in 2005). Then they can enter water very cautiously and see if it's too deep. This may make them too cautious about shallow puddles on roads, though.

If they have a laser measurement of the road from before, couldn't they see that the level of water vs the expected road surface?

That's so much extra complexity

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#74
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have a laser measurement of the road from before, couldn't they see that the level of water vs the expected road surface?

Such detailed database of fine grained road geometry gets stale very quickly, due to road maintenance and road construction. In US highway lanes are shifted sideways frequently.

I traveled to Austin 3 weeks ago and there were entire highways not on Google Maps.

Apparently they were built in just a few months.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#76

Since recall on cars no longer means doing anything to the car's physical location I think the regulator NHSTA should update this term It just creates alarmist headlines for what's really an over the air update, although "recall" is still currently a regulatory accurate term in the vehicle space Cars, especially EVs, have many similarities to being gigantic phones. Imagine if a routine software update from Apple was…

Exactly what I was thinking, the CNBC article feels very clickbity because they don't say that in the opening lead that it's just a software update. They make it sound like they need to be taken back to some factory somewhere and get their systems updated. Which is not true because they just get a software update.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#77
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have a laser measurement of the road from before, couldn't they see that the level of water vs the expected road surface?

Such detailed database of fine grained road geometry gets stale very quickly, due to road maintenance and road construction. In US highway lanes are shifted sideways frequently.

Pretty sure they already rely on such a database for positioning, so they already have that problem.

But yes, this wouldn't work for other self-driving systems that don't rely on HD maps.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#78
post #2

That's a tough problem - distinguishing wet pavement from deep water. Humans make that mistake frequently. Autonomous vehicles should probably be equipped with a water sensor. (We did that in our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle back in 2005). Then they can enter water very cautiously and see if it's too deep. This may make them too cautious about shallow puddles on roads, though.

If they have a laser measurement of the road from before, couldn't they see that the level of water vs the expected road surface?

You underestimate how frequently details like this change in the real world and how difficult it is to reliably integrate them into the mapping models with very low error rates.

Aggregating this data in something close to real-time, verifying and corroborating that the change to the road model is real and correct, and then pushing those model updates to every vehicle that may need it almost immediately is not really a solved problem.

Re: Waymo updates 3,800 robotaxis after they 'drive into standing water'

#80

What is a recall in this case? Is them getting a software update a recall now?

"Recall" is a technical term meaning: "public dangerous defect notice".

A "recall" is stating that the defective version of the product in the field must be "removed/recalled" and replaced/updated with a non-defective version at the manufacturer's expense. It just so happens that the removal and replacement of defective software from the field can occur remotely.

The important part is that the manufacturer delivered a defective product that risks your safety, that fixing that safety defect is the responsibility of the manufacturer, and the system is unsafe until that occurs.

Post reply on HN