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Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

museum.eecs.yorku.ca

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Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#71

Post by cmrdporcupine »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #64
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to think about just how long you'd be driving east from Toronto before you finally hit the Atlantic. (And not just the widening of the St Lawrence at Quebec City, but let's say... where the water is fully salty and tidal... which is apparently around Matane, directly north of New Brunswick). Like, 20 hours of driving. And then to get to e.g. Halifax or Sydney NS, which aren't even our furthest east points, a…

You're right. For the people settling this country, they were traveling west from Europe across the Atlantic, so the country is coded as to how far West you have to travel. Quebec would be "Middle Canada". Ontario should be Western Canada; Manitoba should be Westerner Canada; Saskatchewan should be West Westerner Canada; Alberta should be called Westerer Westerner Canada, and British Columbia should be Better-Come-Fr…

Ok, I'm taking those names. My family in Alberta will love these

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#72

Post by cmrdporcupine »

TheCycoONE wrote: post #54
harwoodr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived my entire life just "down the road" from Toronto in Canada's 10th largest city. Always in the shadow of Toronto and the butt of many jokes. Back when I worked in Toronto, people would always ask when I'd be moving there - because why would you want to live anywhere else? I also remember, circa 2000, when the marketing people at the company I worked at were talking about advertising - they didn't see the po…

I grew up in Orillia, but my siblings and I all moved to your city. At the time it was just the closest to Toronto I could afford because all jobs are in Toronto. This city has grown on me, I wouldn't want to be any closer to Toronto.

Hello fellow Hammertonites

actually I'm rural Flamborough, but when I go to town... I drive right past Waterdown and go to Hamilton instead :-)

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#73

Post by cmrdporcupine »

mewse-hn wrote: post #2

"We will examine this movement by looking at Toronto, the only city in Canada"

I mean, it gets worse. When I first moved to Toronto and became born again and in love with that city, I was even more of a snob and wouldn't even deign to consider as civilized any area that was north of Bloor.

Ok I live just outside Hamilton now, I'm reformed.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#74

Post by dismalaf »

stackghost wrote: post #57
jgon wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try one last reply in the hopes that you're not just playing willfully ignorant here. Alberta doesn't send money but "Albertans" do. Sorry for not being insanely pedantic with my terminology. Critically the federal government then dispenses money to provinces, so even if we want to be clever about the source of money, when it comes back it goes to geographically bounded provincial coffers, not the pockets of cit…

>When people say that "Alberta" sends money, they mean that Albertans pay money to the federal government and then federal government spends that money elsewhere. I don't actually think most people mean this when they say it. But hey, sounds like we both are on the same page, and I'm glad we agree that Alberta as an entity doesn't pay equalization payments. It sounds like you have a problem with federal spending, and…

> I don't actually think most people mean this when they say it.

It's this kind of deeply insulting and patronizing attitude that illustrates exactly why so many Albertans do want to leave Canada.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#75

Post by dismalaf »

jeromegv wrote: post #68
dismalaf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alberta does not "pay into" equalization payments. Provinces do not "send money to other provinces". That's simply not how the program works. You're being pedantic. Income from Alberta workers gets taxed and sent to other provinces or citizens living in other provinces via various federal programs. If we were a separate country, all that money would stay in Alberta. Splitting hairs over the precise "how" doesn't ch…

> If we were a separate country, all that money would stay in Alberta. Yes. But you’d have to pay for your own border, army, customs, etc, etc. By that logic every single province could separate, become a country, and then what? Is that supposed to be more cost efficient? Would the economy and free market between each province better? Would Alberta oil be worth the same price without having pipelines going through ev…

> Yes. But you’d have to pay for your own border, army, customs, etc, etc.

And? $45 billion of the Federal government's revenues come from Alberta. Another poster put the estimate of all these things at $26 billion. Sounds like an amazing deal.

> After all money from Calgary pays for roads in Edmonton and smaller towns

Municipal funds pay for roads, generally speaking. Provincial grants are only if it's proven that the road is essential infrastructure for the benefit of the whole province. The Federal government also gives grants from time to time.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#76

Post by jgon »

cf100clunk wrote: post #61
jgon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, as an Albertan who still lives in Alberta, and who wants to remain a part of Canada I don't think that the persecution complex is 100% bullshit, and dismissals of it as such by eastern Canada only serve to reinforce it. Re: equalization, of course the massive economy of Ontario makes a big part of GDP, but the point of Alberta's importance is that its economy allows it to make an outsized impact compare…

> Alberta has been one of the most under-represented province in the federal government Each time Albertans (I'm a 4th generation of that group) complain about lack of representation within federalism, I remind them of the many golden opportunities that came and went with their popularly elected and re-elected federal parties in power for long stretches of time, with Harper even representing an Alberta riding, yet he…

You're misunderstand my point here. Alberta, until the most recent seat redistribution, had the largest federal ridings by population. Now they're only the 3rd largest. That means that the average Albertan's vote was worth far less than the average Quebecer's, and faaaar less than the average maritimer's vote. It gives disproportionate power above and beyond just representation due to population. Its not about which party they vote or don't vote for, although we could dig into that too, as its not nearly as cut and dried at the reductionist take would make it seem.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#77

Post by jgon »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #69
jgon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, as an Albertan who still lives in Alberta, and who wants to remain a part of Canada I don't think that the persecution complex is 100% bullshit, and dismissals of it as such by eastern Canada only serve to reinforce it. Re: equalization, of course the massive economy of Ontario makes a big part of GDP, but the point of Alberta's importance is that its economy allows it to make an outsized impact compare…

Relevant: https://thewalrus.ca/alberta-separatism-fuelled-by-russian-n...

I mean one of the opening paragraphs of that article is as follows:

"This is not because Alberta’s grievances are illegitimate. They are not. Albertans have real and long-standing concerns about energy policy, federal–provincial relations, and economic fairness within Confederation. Those concerns deserve to be debated openly and democratically by Canadians, among themselves, on their own terms. The danger is who has joined the debate and why."

This is my point. The separation stuff is clearly completely illegitimate, but the underlying causes of the grievances, several of which I've pointed out in my post above, are entirely real and legitimate, and just blowing it off as "meh, its just russian disinformation" etc, etc, is just a really lame way of not dealing with the issues at hand.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#78

Post by jpalawaga »

dismalaf wrote: post #36
stackghost wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>like the British Empire treated it colony Canada, so does the country treats us This persecution complex seems bizarre. The only entities exploiting Alberta are the oil companies who offshore billions of dollars in profits. Instead of growing their sovereign wealth fund the way Norway does, Albertans allowed themselves to be exploited. Edit: I see now that when I wrote "created a fund like Norway" it was taken as im…

1. Alberta has a wealth fund. 2. The amount Alberta has sent in equalization payments would have allowed us to have a far larger wealth fund than Norway has. Also, you are aware that, no matter who exploits the oil, the Alberta government receives royalties from it, right? Also, most of the foreign companies have joint ventures with Canadian entities and a lot of the money does stay within Canada and Alberta. And eve…

alberta could also have had a wealth fund if it didn't have 0% sales tax, didn't do things like ralphbucks, etc.

norway and alberta take fundamentally different approaches to how they see the government and taxation. don't blame the federal government by saying individuals paying income tax somehow exempts the province from smart financial stewardship.

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#79

Post by Brian_K_White »

teunispeters wrote: post #56

All of this was so very inaccessible from North Western Canada. (mind, still is, but Internet makes vast gulfs of space seem so much smaller) When I could get there, Heathkit (~1200km south) or Radio Shack (wow do I ever miss them carrying electronics!) were go-tos. These days, it's order online or ... nothing, really.

Heathkit had physical locations? I had only ever seen magazine ads for mail order kits in 73 & QSL etc. A Heathkit store would probably blow my mind. :)

Re: Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

#80

Post by irishcoffee »

reaperducer wrote: post #17
buescher wrote: post #12

I got a VIC-20 when I was about 12? Jim Butterfield loomed impossibly large over all things Commodore at that time. One of the first things I typed in on it was his TINYMON, a <1kbyte “monitor” (for some reason resident debuggers were frequently called monitors in early microcomputing) before I had any idea what it was.

for some reason resident debuggers were frequently called monitors in early microcomputing I think it's more like "for some reason, monitors are called debuggers in later microcomputing."

Debuggers were people pulling bugs out of walls of vacuum tubes. They monitored and literally debugged a computer. Monitor made more sense at first, they monitored for bugs.

At least, this is my understanding.

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