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The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

theatlantic.com

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Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#71

Post by nervousvarun »

woeirua wrote: post #44
tux3 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The true AI doomsayers believe in some sort of technological singularity, which means a point after which things become so strange that the world is radically transformed. Things like "jobs" and "careers" are so integral to society that we can't really imagine what society would be like in a world where people don't have any clear purpose. That's why you won't get a definitive answer. The whole idea of a singularity…

I believe that AI will continue to progress. I believe that we’re going to see a fast takeoff. That said, some people are now discussing a “societal singularity” wherein society breaks before the actual emergence of AGI. I believe this is the trajectory we are on. The question is what happens to the unemployed. Democracies will not tolerate mass permanent unemployment, as we’ve seen over and over again. UBI is a scam…

My sentiments are fairly similar.

In the US at least the middle class was already being hunted to extinction and it seems reasonable. This is just accelerant on that already burning fire.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#72

Post by bcjdjsndon »

pelotron wrote: post #14
bcjdjsndon wrote: post #2

> They want to replace workers A simple question none of the ai-doomsayers can answer... who buys anything when nobody has a job cos robots do everything?

We shouldn't be surprised people have a negative view of AI when Altman et al. have stated on stage that the goal is to replace everyone.

Because it's not even logically possible, let alone practically

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#73

Post by JohnFen »

ryanackley wrote: post #67
garciasn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always amazed that when I tell people I intend to retire in my 50s, they tell me that I can’t possibly mean that and actively wonder how I could possibly fill my time. It’s as if we could not possibly function as humans without meaningless shifting of tangible/intangibles from one place to another. Society is so hellbent on the idea that we need our job to be our identity, they lack the imagination for another ot…

Sure working sucks, but have you tried not working? I think this is from lived experience because I've gone for stretches of not working (intentionally). It can be challenging to find a sense of fulfillment. I know it seems counter-intuitive but if you do succeed in your dream of retiring in your 50's I think you'll understand what I mean when you get there.

I think this varies wildly from person to person. I've also intentionally gone long stretches without working and those are the times when I've had a dramatically increased sense of purpose and fulfillment. Working for others reduces those things for me.

I'm in the age group where a lot of the people around me have retired. Some of them have fared very poorly, some have straight-up blossomed.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#74

Post by rune-dev »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

> I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving

I mean yeah, obviously. You can’t trust a word out of either of their mouths.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#75

Post by pugworthy »

bcjdjsndon wrote: post #2

> They want to replace workers A simple question none of the ai-doomsayers can answer... who buys anything when nobody has a job cos robots do everything?

I saw a talk by Brian Merchant (https://www.bloodinthemachine.com/) a while back where he talked a lot about the Luddites and their revolts against automation. He's definitely not a fan of AI, but it was very interesting to hear the comparisons of AI resistance now to Luddite resistance to automation in the 1800's.

There was unfortunately no Q&A in the lecture, as probably the one question I would have asked him was this: What if the Luddites had gotten their way? What do you imagine our society and world would be like right now?

It's not meant to be a trick question or a "gotcha" question. Society would indeed have been different. Maybe it would be all wonderfully Star Trek utopia and we'd have found a win-win for everyone. Or maybe we'd just be not nearly as technically advanced as a society as we are now.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#76

Post by pelotron »

bluecheese452 wrote: post #7
bcjdjsndon wrote: post #2

> They want to replace workers A simple question none of the ai-doomsayers can answer... who buys anything when nobody has a job cos robots do everything?

If you have a magic robot that builds everything you want you don’t need anyone to buy anything. Jfc this site is the worst. Use your words instead of drive by downvoting.

Then all you have to do is magically convince the owners of the magic robot to give all their products away for free.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#77

Post by bediger4000 »

aspenmartin wrote: post #45

Ignoring CEO predictions, can anyone point to any major revolutionary technology that had a net negative impact on quality of life and employment statistics? AI is an incredibly powerful technological shift in our way of life but where is the net employment hit taking place? Unemployment numbers remain stable. Revolutions like this do create widening inequality while also increasing long run productivity. Yes inequal…

We treat it as uniquely damaging, because it's touted as uniquely enhancing, or even uniquely revolutionary. "AI is not just any tool" is often the response to some asking to exercise choice in the tools they use. "You don't have to use AI in your work, but if you don't, you'll work for someone who does".

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#78

Post by Yizahi »

otikik wrote: post #11

My main problem is this: - If (big If) AI actually replaces workers, then we have a problem, because lots of folk lost their jobs - If AI doesn't replace workers, then we have a recession, because a lot of the US economy now sits on top of corporations betting on it. And this will tank the economy and lots of folk will lose their jobs It feels that the only path forward is a narrow one where AI removes some jobs , bu…

Basically the whole point of existence for St. Sam is make sure that his corpo is too big to fail. So either he strikes gold, or he is bailed out by the taxpayer money a-la "investments".

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#79

Post by nervousvarun »

bluecheese452 wrote: post #60
nervousvarun wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"not always strictly profit maximization." Maybe in the short-term but public companies with shareholders won't allow this in any sort of long-term way right?

Not allow it? They insist upon it! The controlling votes are all part of the same social class. They would gladly give up a small amount of profit to keep the distance between them and the workers as large as possible.

To the extent it doesn't negatively impact the stock price sure but you would agree the CEO and any sort of power-trip they have is ultimately beholden to that right?

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#80

Post by bachmeier »

ryanackley wrote: post #67
garciasn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always amazed that when I tell people I intend to retire in my 50s, they tell me that I can’t possibly mean that and actively wonder how I could possibly fill my time. It’s as if we could not possibly function as humans without meaningless shifting of tangible/intangibles from one place to another. Society is so hellbent on the idea that we need our job to be our identity, they lack the imagination for another ot…

Sure working sucks, but have you tried not working? I think this is from lived experience because I've gone for stretches of not working (intentionally). It can be challenging to find a sense of fulfillment. I know it seems counter-intuitive but if you do succeed in your dream of retiring in your 50's I think you'll understand what I mean when you get there.

Sorry, but your comment isn't really responding to OP's main point.

> It can be challenging to find a sense of fulfillment.

If you actually get fulfillment from work, then great, continue to work. The critical thing that drives people to retire earlier than the average person is that their work doesn't give them a sense of fulfillment. It's literally just a way to fill out the day. Some people do have things that are more fulfilling than letting an employer tell them how to spend their day.

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