A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan • Hacker News Board

Re: A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan

#71

Post by tpm » Tue, May 12, 2026, 1:15 PM UTC

gucci-on-fleek wrote: post #69

tpm wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting - naively I would expect the wastewater infrastructure to be overbuilt enough to manage larger than normal rains, which are usually several times over typical household wastewater production.

> naively I would expect the wastewater infrastructure to be overbuilt enough to manage larger than normal rains, which are usually several times over typical household wastewater production It depends on the city—some cities do indeed handle rainwater with the normal sewer system, but most have an entirely separate system for rainwater [0]. But either way, if you pave more roads, you're always going to have more rai…

1. The parent was mentioning densification - that doesn't automatically mean more roads.

2. It's not just roads but also roofs etc., is it common to drain the house roof into a different system than the rest of the house? Of course in a house with a large lot you can drain into a garden or whatever but that's not possible in densely built areas. In our city it all ends up in one system but of course we've had a sewer system since the middle ages or so.

Re: A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan

#72

Post by Schiendelman » Tue, May 12, 2026, 1:46 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #17

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>particularly since Denver seems to categorise practically all impactful residential development as "major commercial." This isn't an accident. They know what they're doing. Every municipality tries to do this to the extent they think they can get away with it because it's an end run around your property right. There's all sorts of residential exemptions and precedents and case law and courts and politicians tend not…

It's absolutely vital to homeowners that no new housing be built, to keep Undesirables from moving in, but they need to do it in a way which leaves no blood on their hands so they can continue to have their In This House signs with no cognitive dissonance. And this is how they get it: don't make it literally illegal to build housing, but make it economically impossible in practice. Then they can go "welp, nothing's g…

This is why we must overturn zoning - governments should not have the right to tell you how much you can build. Then we have a shot of forcing permitting to be faster. Make the delay a taking!

Re: A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan

#73

Post by Schiendelman » Tue, May 12, 2026, 1:47 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #70

hibikir wrote: post #28

No, we can't. Once could lower the rate of increase of housing prices (and, more realistically, land values), but "gentrification" isn't really just about pricing, but a change in preferences: Areas close to urban centers had low prices because people wanted to live in deep suburbs, far away from city crime and bad schools. Now they are desirable, and thus people far more affluent are going to bit outbidding the comm…

well actually... the city of vienna mandates that 2/3rd of any new housing is subsidized. so instead of controlling the price all over, you control the price of a part, and make sure that every neighborhood has room for low income families. in other words you enforce mixing. singapore is another city with a lot of subsidized housing.

And both have become massively unaffordable as a result, and have long lines to wait for housing. Vienna can't grow anymore as a result. The Christmas markets are still nice, but the city is frozen in amber.

Controls on housing prices make it easy to claim "look we made it cheaper" at the cost of forcing people to move away.

Re: A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan

#74

Post by Schiendelman » Tue, May 12, 2026, 1:49 PM UTC

thcipriani wrote: post #15

I'm down with killing restrictive zoning laws. But removing regulation has not historically been a great curb for the uber-wealthy.

Zoning is likely a big part of what causes people to become medium wealthy. Making it legal to build on every parcel also helps avoid concentrating wealth.

Re: A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan

#75

Post by Schiendelman » Tue, May 12, 2026, 1:51 PM UTC

rickydroll wrote: post #50

Permit wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's very, very much more bad than it is good Is it? I don’t have a clear picture in either direction. What does an environmental impact assessment for a housing project typically result in?

Well, I've witnessed this on dozens of houses in the town where my ex-wife grew up. The local river was slow-moving in a shallow river valley. Every spring, it would flood, and houses built within a half-mile of the main river would flood up to the second floor. Would the environmental assessment help? I'd like to think so, but when I almost bought in the area, I discovered that the floodplain maps were "optimistic."

Insurance solves this for you. You don't need government. I bet that town allowed those houses anyway, so zoning didn't prevent it.

Re: A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan

#76

Post by Schiendelman » Tue, May 12, 2026, 1:52 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #11

ecshafer wrote: post #7

Fixing housing is incredibly easy: 1. Remove Zoning / Deed Restrictions / Parking Minimums 2. Remove Red Tape (Environmental impact assessments, time cap approvals to a couple weeks, at cost fees) 3. Land Value Taxes Watch as Gentrification suddenly goes away and infill development occurs. These complicated schemes are unnecessary.

>Remove Zoning >Remove Red Tape (Environmental impact assessments I absolutely understand what prompts this desperation, but much like the desperation that prompted the election of Trump, it's very, very much more bad than it is good.

It's not clear that there's any bad in practice. All the fears I've seen about eliminating zoning turn out to be misunderstandings of either law or economics.

Jane Jacobs had a chapter about fixing this in 1961, and she's 10x more right now than she was then.

Re: A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan

#77

Post by em-bee » Tue, May 12, 2026, 2:09 PM UTC

Schiendelman wrote: post #73

em-bee wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well actually... the city of vienna mandates that 2/3rd of any new housing is subsidized. so instead of controlling the price all over, you control the price of a part, and make sure that every neighborhood has room for low income families. in other words you enforce mixing. singapore is another city with a lot of subsidized housing.

And both have become massively unaffordable as a result, and have long lines to wait for housing. Vienna can't grow anymore as a result. The Christmas markets are still nice, but the city is frozen in amber. Controls on housing prices make it easy to claim "look we made it cheaper" at the cost of forcing people to move away.

both have become massively unaffordable

that's every large city in germany too. except in vienna it only affects 1/3rd of the population because everyone else lives in affordable subsidized housing. exactly who has been forced to move away?

Vienna can't grow anymore as a result.

huh? vienna has been growing from 1.5 million to 2 million in the last 3 decades. and it hasn't even reached the peak population it had a century ago. it is also building whole new neighborhoods. i don't know how you get the idea that it can't grow anymore. nothing could be further from the truth. there is plenty of space for new development in the east for example.

Re: A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan

#78

Post by Johnny_Bonk » Tue, May 12, 2026, 2:43 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #34

Johnny_Bonk wrote: post #31

Very curious about what tools or platforms are used to make the visual housing figures with highlighting like you see in strategy 2 figure. any tips much appreciated

I’m pretty sure those were drawn in SketchUp

havent used sketchup as much but i wonder if they have like stock templates, will have to look

Re: A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan

#79

Post by tekla » Tue, May 12, 2026, 2:53 PM UTC

thcipriani wrote: post #15

I'm down with killing restrictive zoning laws. But removing regulation has not historically been a great curb for the uber-wealthy.

I hate this thing where we can't do a thing that helps a ton of people, because it also helps people we hate.

It's so poisonous to politics, and everyone does it for their pet peeve.

Can't do permitting reform, can't fix education, can't loosen bad regulation, all of it because someone you don't like might benefit and fuck that guy.

Re: A look at Denver’s “Unlocking Housing Choices” plan

#80

Post by someguydave » Tue, May 12, 2026, 2:55 PM UTC

Schiendelman wrote: post #72

Analemma_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely vital to homeowners that no new housing be built, to keep Undesirables from moving in, but they need to do it in a way which leaves no blood on their hands so they can continue to have their In This House signs with no cognitive dissonance. And this is how they get it: don't make it literally illegal to build housing, but make it economically impossible in practice. Then they can go "welp, nothing's g…

This is why we must overturn zoning - governments should not have the right to tell you how much you can build. Then we have a shot of forcing permitting to be faster. Make the delay a taking!

The delay is a taking