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Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

grapheneos.social

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Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#71

Post by onlytue »

retired wrote: post #66
miohtama wrote: post #56

The EU Digital (identity) Wallet EUDI requires hardware attestation by Google or Apple, effectively tying all the digital EU identities to American duopoly. Talk about digital sovereignity. Apparently protecting the children > sovereignity. https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/eudi-wallet/wallet-developmen...

So with a single flip of the switch, the president of the USA can shut down our EU Digital Identity Wallet. Why was this decision ever made?

I hate to beat a dead horse and have people downvote me but: the EU has always been corrupted. The knowledge and effects are not evenly distributed until it hits each niche group. Then they find out the hard way that they were useful idiots. It’s ok to be wrong/admit. Let’s just move past the infighting and see those in power for the evil that they are.

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#72

Post by thomastjeffery »

Someone wrote: post #34
ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

This is a really good thread on why this technology is becoming a problem for "open" anything. The argument "we can create our own separate web" is fine until all of your services are behind the web that locks you into owning a Google approved or Apple approved mobile device.

IMO, it would be better if they removed the claim “It doesn't provide a useful security feature” because, even if it does, the collateral damage of making non-Google, non-Apple OSes second class citizens remains, and that is the main problem.

That's one of the two main claims made by in favor of hardware attestation; so it makes sense to argue against it. Of course, the other claim (that categories of people must be kept "safe" from categories of content) is more insidious, so it does deserve more attention.

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#73

Post by varispeed »

retired wrote: post #66
miohtama wrote: post #56

The EU Digital (identity) Wallet EUDI requires hardware attestation by Google or Apple, effectively tying all the digital EU identities to American duopoly. Talk about digital sovereignity. Apparently protecting the children > sovereignity. https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/eudi-wallet/wallet-developmen...

So with a single flip of the switch, the president of the USA can shut down our EU Digital Identity Wallet. Why was this decision ever made?

Corruption. A taboo topic people prefer to downvote and pretend it does not exist.

But even bigger problem is that institutions designed to prevent this from happening are not doing their job.

Thousands security service and civil servants take their wages and look the other way.

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#74

Post by [deleted] »

hnlmorg wrote: post #18
samplifier wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there enough of us to run our own country? It makes me feel dumb, but this is a serious question.

I’m not sure why you’re asking this question, but you can run a country as a population of 1 (ie just yourself) if you wanted. The problem being raised isn’t due to the size of the country though. It’s the size of the company (ie Apple and Google)

[deleted]

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#75

Post by lpcvoid »

ls612 wrote: post #23
lpcvoid wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, I think you cast the net way too wide. Asymmetric cryptography enables secure communication in the first place. It's being used nefariously by Google and Apple, of course, but that's to be expected from big tech.

Isn’t the ability to create certificates guaranteed conceptually once you have asymmetric crypto? In that case there is no intermediate technology which allows key exchanges without also creating digital totalitarianism.

[dead]

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#76

Post by rvz »

onlytue wrote: post #71
retired wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So with a single flip of the switch, the president of the USA can shut down our EU Digital Identity Wallet. Why was this decision ever made?

I hate to beat a dead horse and have people downvote me but: the EU has always been corrupted. The knowledge and effects are not evenly distributed until it hits each niche group. Then they find out the hard way that they were useful idiots. It’s ok to be wrong/admit. Let’s just move past the infighting and see those in power for the evil that they are.

Exactly. I have said this for a very long time and the EU (and many other governments) are not our friends and they are just as corrupt. Remember ChatControl?

Anytime anyone criticises the EU here, you will get downvoted even after trying to warn the EU defenders that they are not our friends at all.

I was asking for evidence about the EU digital ID wallets about what the "disinformation" was around it 3 years ago [0] and not a single link of it was given.

At this point, being an EU defender and supporting the "open web" are incompatible since you will be using your EU digital identity wallet [1] with your phone to login to your bank and the internet will push age verification with it, locking you out if you don't sign up.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36105002

[1] https://eudi.dev/latest/

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#77

Post by Gravityloss »

retired wrote: post #66
miohtama wrote: post #56

The EU Digital (identity) Wallet EUDI requires hardware attestation by Google or Apple, effectively tying all the digital EU identities to American duopoly. Talk about digital sovereignity. Apparently protecting the children > sovereignity. https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/eudi-wallet/wallet-developmen...

So with a single flip of the switch, the president of the USA can shut down our EU Digital Identity Wallet. Why was this decision ever made?

Is some party or coalition putting forth candidates that stand against this?

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#78

Post by ls612 »

grishka wrote: post #68
ls612 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t matter if you can produce SOCs if your hardware isn’t trusted.

What if you can copy someone else's SoC including their keys ?

I guess read-only memory is another requirement but that is very old technology we have never had asymmetric cryptography without read only memory.

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#79

Post by saltcured »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

This is a really good thread on why this technology is becoming a problem for "open" anything. The argument "we can create our own separate web" is fine until all of your services are behind the web that locks you into owning a Google approved or Apple approved mobile device.

And it didn't even take attestation to cause this absurd situation where many businesses or social groups were only reachable behind Facebook or Whatsapp or whatever.

To me this is such a bizarre cyberpunk dystopia. Like if we could only send letters and packages to people subscribed to the same private postal service, or drive on roads that had cross-licensing with our brand of car.

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#80

Post by steelframe »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

This is a really good thread on why this technology is becoming a problem for "open" anything. The argument "we can create our own separate web" is fine until all of your services are behind the web that locks you into owning a Google approved or Apple approved mobile device.

I like to ride my bicycle with my friends in rides organized by the (Pacific Northwest) Cascade Bicycle Club. They require that I solve a Google reCAPTCHA in order to register for a ride. Google is already completely locking me out from being able to do that. When I try to click on the squares to select whatever items it's asking, it indefinitely loops. When I try using the audio version, it completely blocks me from using it saying that there has been suspicious activity.

That means that I ride alone these days. I did not renew my membership this year.

The last time I experienced something like this was when Facebook starting being the only way to participate in certain events. Back when that happened, I simply counted myself as excluded and did other things with my time and money.

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