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First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

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Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#71

Post by grumbelbart2 »

logifail wrote: post #26
usrusr wrote: post #23

Can anyone from the region comment on the status of plans for the landside linkup on the German side? Last time it made the press it was because the project was at risk of seeing the Danish tunnel finished before Germany could tell not even when but if a linkup would ever make it across bureaucratic hurdles. Almost like a Darien Gap made exclusively of red tape.

You mean like the Brenner Base [Rail] Tunnel which will connect Austria and Italy? Germany seems to be stuck at the "studying" stage before they improve the relevant rail links on the Grafing–Rosenheim–Kufstein route. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_Base_Tunnel

The exact same thing is happening with the Gotthard Base Tunnel. Switzerland has completed it almost 10 years ago, Germany still hasn't finished the links.

It is combination of the German planning system, which allows the processes to be stretched out due to objections, and spineless politicians who don't really want to commit to a route and kick the can down the road (because whatever they do, someone will be angry; but voter's don't really make you responsible if the link isn't built or is delayed).

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#72

Post by mschuster91 »

peterfirefly wrote: post #58
mschuster91 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have a source for how little maintenance this will need? In Germany, twice a year inspection is mandatory for infrastructure [1] but this is only a visual inspection. Once every 6 years you got a large inspection [2] that includes a full go over everything including functionality checks plus a review of documentation (if it is still up to code) and of accident documentation, as well as a "knock test" on ever…

Sometimes the inspections aren't worth much -- or aren't acted on -- and you end up with a bridge collapse, even in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carola_Bridge

The problem is, it was known that the bridge was structurally unsound thanks to its age, but the elements that corroded and actually caused the damage could not be inspected at all. The report [1] is quite fascinating, the meat is on page 53/54:

> Auf Grundlage der gewonnenen Erkenntnisse und der positiven Berechnungsergebnisse wurde in der Gesamtbetrachtung weder ein akuter Handlungsbedarf festgestellt noch eine Verstärkung als erforderlich erachtet

> (Based on observation results and positive simulations no need to act was derived, nor was an increase in observation deemed to be necessary)

The root cause is deemed to be errors made all the way back during construction, most probably too long exposure of the steel cables to the environment (see page 108).

Only thanks to this desaster the actual failure mode and how to spot it got known in the first place. The report suggests (page 110) that bridges of a similar construction type (and thus, the same weakness) be retrofitted with acoustic monitoring to detect snapping cables.

[1] https://www.dresden.de/media/pdf/Strassenbau/Gutachten-Carol...

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#73

Post by dasKrokodil »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #67

This is very exciting if you live in the Copenhagen–Malmö area. Currently it takes 5 hours from Copenhagen to Hamburg, and 8 hours if you want to get to Berlin. With this tunnel done, I believe Copenhagen to Hamburg will be less than three hours. Suddenly a weekend trip to Germany by train looks more practical. The train is very nice right now, but you need to set aside a day for travel, in both directions. It's a sh…

> With this tunnel done, I believe Copenhagen to Hamburg will be less than three hours.

Even when the tunnel will finally be done, Deutsche Bahn will find creative ways to make it take five hours again.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#75

Post by Aardwolf »

"It looks like you're trying to visit our US site, but you're not based in the US. If you'd prefer to visit our global site, please click on 'Global site' below, alternatively if you wish to continue to the US site, please click 'Continue'."

Do they want me to read their article or not? It shouldn't matter where I am for that

Are they aware this question invokes anxiety to the visitor because many websites will show a different generic page instead of the desired one when clicking one of the options?

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#76

Post by mprev »

rbanffy wrote: post #74

And here I am measuring the distance from Dublin (Ireland) to Holyhead - would be ok for fast rail, but then it's between 3 to 5 hours of rail to London. I wonder if Ryanair pays rail companies to offer poor service.

Isn't the issue the depth of the Irish Sea at the point where Scotland and Ireland are closest? It gets to around 1,000 ft deep there (roughly 5x where the Channel Tunnel goes) and has a bunch of unexploded WW2 bombs dumped there, too.

Then Dublin to Holyhead is, what, 70 miles? That's twice as long as the Seikan tunnel, which I think is the world's longest under sea tunnel.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#77

Post by wasmitnetzen »

usrusr wrote: post #23

Can anyone from the region comment on the status of plans for the landside linkup on the German side? Last time it made the press it was because the project was at risk of seeing the Danish tunnel finished before Germany could tell not even when but if a linkup would ever make it across bureaucratic hurdles. Almost like a Darien Gap made exclusively of red tape.

The tricky part will be the the train tunnel on the other end of Fehmarn, the current best guess for the finishing date is 2032[1]. They haven't started building yet[2], so I wouldn't put a lot of trust in that number.

[1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarnsundtunnel [2]: https://www.anbindung-fbq.de/streckenabschnitte/sundquerung....

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#78

Post by Tade0 »

rbanffy wrote: post #74

And here I am measuring the distance from Dublin (Ireland) to Holyhead - would be ok for fast rail, but then it's between 3 to 5 hours of rail to London. I wonder if Ryanair pays rail companies to offer poor service.

> I wonder if Ryanair pays rail companies to offer poor service.

I think the rail companies do it free of charge and Ryanair is happy to accept this business proposition.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#79

Post by lukan »

tokai wrote: post #69
lukan wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have been dogmatic, but the claim of being enemy agents would require a source for me.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russia-funding-europe... https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00364R0010015...

Where exactly is there a claim that "They also love to receive support from foreign state actors to harm Germany"?

In the first link there the evidence is a statement from Hillary Clinton as well as unnamed other NATO members.

"WWF Germany, BUND (Friends of the Earth), and NABU (Nature and Biodiversity Conservation Union), three environmental organisations who were avowed opponents of Germany’s NordStream pipelines with Russia, dropped their opposition after Gazprom promised funding for environmental protection"

And this says they dropped opposition that the russian state does good for environment elsewhere, not that they get money.

And the second link is about the peace movement which is not exactly the same.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#80

Post by lostdog »

Towaway69 wrote: post #34

I wonder what the relationship is between the word engineering in the sense used here and software engineering ? I am amazed how bad software engineering has become with constant updates of software because of “improvements” or because there has to be constant release cycle else the software is unmaintained or bad. While this kind of engineering is designed to be untouched for the next 15 to 30 years. Minimal mainten…

Is real, physical engineering that much better?

Take the new sf bay bridge span. It leaked, and had to be fixed to prevent critical parts from corroding. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Caltrans-was-warned-o...

Projects are consistently over budget, late, and shoddily done in the physical world too.

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