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Heat pump sales rise across Europe

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Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#71

Post by zipy124 »

PanMan wrote: post #41
pandora-health wrote: post #38

I run daily comparisons between a gas boiler and a heat pump in the UK. Given that gas is cheaper than electricity, a well-installed and well-controlled gas boiler can still be cheaper to run. Heat pump running costs can drop drastically when combined with solar and battery storage, but that requires a much greater upfront investment. https://x.com/AO7186252340513 https://bsky.app/profile/showpiece.bsky.social

I'm no expert on UK energy pricing, but the main difference between a boiler and heat pump is that heatpump can be, eg "500% efficient" - a COP of 5. So even if a KWH of energy is 2x the price for electricity a heatpump often comes out ahead.

Electricity in the UK is often 3x or more expensive than electricity for the same energy content. We have some of the most expensive electricity in the world.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#72

Post by ndr42 »

bluGill wrote: post #61
ndr42 wrote: post #26

> [it] become[s] cheaper than gas heating within 11 to 14 years This a no-brainer for buildings with high energy use. But we looked into getting a heat pump last year but it doesn't pan out because our house (15 years old) has a very low energy use and we would not recover the costs (about 20K euros after subsidies) for 20+ years.

Your existing system will not last forever. When you have to spend money anyway that changes things.

Yes. It also depends on the age of your gas heating as in Germany you get 20% subsidies when your system is 20 years or older, unfortunately this subsidy decreases 3 percentage points every year so when we are due it will be about 5%.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#73

Post by JoelJacobson »

Shame on The Netherlands: ~89% of homes still use natural gas in some way for heating [1], and their government are now "scrapping the obligation to purchase a heat pump in 2026" [2].

[1] https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2025/50/ever-more-gas-free-hom... [2] https://www.abnamro.nl/en/personal/specially-for/preferred-b...

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#75

Post by jmull »

pojzon wrote: post #70
ejoebstl wrote: post #24

In DACH, there's not really an alternative for many homes. Heat pumps are by now cheaper, more efficient, more versatile and definitely greener than other means of heating. If you get one, just make sure to get the dimensioning right. They are WAY more complex to plan, install and maintain than traditional heating.

1) To make it really green and viable -> you „need” solar installation 2) To have solar installation you have to abaid to painfully stupid legistlation 3) In winter pump is as green as the diesel generator that produces energy for it to run

Sounds like you're in a specific situation.

I wonder what it is and whether it applies to a lot of other people?

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#76

Post by klinch »

pojzon wrote: post #70
ejoebstl wrote: post #24

In DACH, there's not really an alternative for many homes. Heat pumps are by now cheaper, more efficient, more versatile and definitely greener than other means of heating. If you get one, just make sure to get the dimensioning right. They are WAY more complex to plan, install and maintain than traditional heating.

1) To make it really green and viable -> you „need” solar installation 2) To have solar installation you have to abaid to painfully stupid legistlation 3) In winter pump is as green as the diesel generator that produces energy for it to run

I'm sure you already made up your mind about heat pumps and that I can't convince you otherwise. But for other readers, let me add some thoughts to your points.

1) well, there's a grid. So as long as someone somewhere on your continent produces green energy it is viable and green.

2) arguable. Depends on your legislation.

3) Again, there's a grid. And even considering the worst case of no renewable sources at all: A heat pump (which uses 1kWh of electricity to provide 3-6kWh of heat) powered by a diesel generator is still more efficient than burning the diesel directly. Now add efficient combined cycle power plants, wind, biomass, hydro and battery storage systems...

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#77

Post by leononame »

pojzon wrote: post #70
ejoebstl wrote: post #24

In DACH, there's not really an alternative for many homes. Heat pumps are by now cheaper, more efficient, more versatile and definitely greener than other means of heating. If you get one, just make sure to get the dimensioning right. They are WAY more complex to plan, install and maintain than traditional heating.

1) To make it really green and viable -> you „need” solar installation 2) To have solar installation you have to abaid to painfully stupid legistlation 3) In winter pump is as green as the diesel generator that produces energy for it to run

That's not true. A heat pump produces 1.5 to kwH of heat per kwH of electricity consumed, so it's already much more efficient than a diesel generator.

Even in winter, electricity from the grid is greener than burning diesel. I didn't find specific numbers for winter, but wind is about 30% of Germany's (just picking the biggest country out of DACH to support the point, not trying to come up with exact numbers) electricity production year-round, and wind doesn't tank in winter like solar does.

So, in short. Installing a heat pump and just taking electricity from the grid is still better for the environment. Of course, having your own solar is great if you live in a house, but you don't need it.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#78

Post by ane »

gosub100 wrote: post #56
shellfishgene wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the same thing, no?

I think they mean "air exchange" (split AC) vs "heat pump" (dig into the earth to draw/eliminate heat). Not saying that's the right definition though. I am guessing at an auto-correction of what they meant.

A heat pump is not necessarily dug into the earth. Rather, the flow of the heat pump is moving heat (thermal energy) from outdoors to indoors or the other way around in an air conditioner.

Depending on the direction of the coolant flow, you get either a indoor heating or cooling unit. This is best demonstrated by going in front of the outdoor unit of a heat pump, when they are cooling, the outdoor unit generates heat because it's compressing gas, which then is then expanded when it reaches the indoor unit, generating cold. Exactly like a refridgerator.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#79

Post by joe_mamba »

crote wrote: post #63
joe_mamba wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge is for people who live in apartment buildings in urban environment where you have no front yard you can drill into at your leisure.

The solution is of course to get a communal system. As a bonus, drilling one giant loop is significantly cheaper than drilling hundreds of smaller ones.

>The solution is of course to get a communal system.

If it's that simple why is Austria not doing this in the cities? I don't know any voter who opposes cleaner air and cheaper heating.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#80

Post by foo42 »

pandora-health wrote: post #38

I run daily comparisons between a gas boiler and a heat pump in the UK. Given that gas is cheaper than electricity, a well-installed and well-controlled gas boiler can still be cheaper to run. Heat pump running costs can drop drastically when combined with solar and battery storage, but that requires a much greater upfront investment. https://x.com/AO7186252340513 https://bsky.app/profile/showpiece.bsky.social

Seems like a decent place to point out that there are good savings to be had on heat pump running costs with a smart controller designed for heat pumps which can learn the dynamics of your building then preheat when tariffs are low or outdoor conditions are favourable.

I work for homely energy which has such an offering, but fwiw I genuinely think it's a good product. It's been studied by Salford uni in their energy house lab, so if anyone's interested maybe dig into that for a more neutral verdict.

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