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Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

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Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#71

Post by CydeWeys »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #41
steveBK123 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saw similar with my grandmothers. One had a busy social live and volunteer schedule for 20+ years, the other.. did not. A reminder that you cannot simply retire FROM something (work, commuting, etc) but must retire TO something (hobbies, social life, second career, volunteering, etc). There's always more opportunities in the community than there are volunteers, so look around.

>A reminder that you cannot simply retire FROM something (work, commuting, etc) but must retire TO something (hobbies, social life, second career, volunteering, etc). Yeah, my guess is that someone retiring early to pursue their hobbies and interests is going to be much better off than a blue collar worker made redundant or disabled in his 50's. I always see these sort of studies used to slam the idea of FIRE, but I…

Retiring TO something is important, but ideally it needs to involve a lot of in-person socializing, which many hobbies do not have. Golfing, for example, is pretty much the platonic ideal of a hobby that involves both socialization and old-person-friendly exercise.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#72

Post by tensor »

CydeWeys wrote: post #68
bluefirebrand wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a problem with a society that more or less forces people to make work their only focus for their entire lives

Or maybe that's just the human condition? Retirement is a pretty recent concept anyway. Back when people were hunter/gatherers or subsistence farmers, you didn't have the option of retiring. You either kept working or you starved, perished from the elements, etc.

That's not true. There were always different roles for older people. They didn't just keep doing the same job their whole lives.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#73

Post by bilsbie »

tootie wrote: post #51
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #35

The problem isn't retirement per se, it is that people don't have things to occupy themselves with. They retire and they vegetate. I worked with a lady that was in her 70s who was deathly afraid of retiring because she didn't have anything to do. That's beyond depressing to me, to be incapable of even conceiving of doing something that doesn't involve going to a job. We have created people that never develop as human…

I retired recently in my late 40s (FIRE). Work was occasionally fulfilling, but mostly just a drag and when I didn't need it anymore, I was more than happy to stop. I've been raising my kids which is stimulation enough, but they are teens now and don't need such constant attention. Most of my other interests got swallowed up by career and kids and I don't really have the urge to go back to them. Actually thinking abo…

Hey I’m in the same boat! (Except the grad school.) feel free to email (in profile) if you want to chat.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#74

Post by the_gastropod »

_blk wrote: post #38
ericmay wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a general comment, I'd like to say that getting out of the house is a hell of a lot easier when you don't have to drive everywhere to participate in daily life. So and so family member sits at home and watches TV all day is a phenomenon caused primarily by our car-centric culture which, for the elderly, is a barrier to staying healthy both mentally and physically.

Respectfully but strongly disagree. I'll argue you don't have to be a victim and can choose where you live if you plan ahead a little. There's plenty of places where a car is not necessary and even if people think a car's necessary I'm often the only one on a bicycle in many places.. It's doable if you're willing to put in the effort.

As far as I’m aware, every US city where it’s at all common (let’s say 10%+ of households) to live without a car, it’s extremely expensive to live. Are there gems that I’m unaware of?

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#76

Post by gste »

Is there any evidence in this paper or elsewhere that this is causation rather than correlation?

For example, it seems logical to me that people with worse health and failing mental faculties will already be feeling more motivation to retire earlier, as opposed to very healthy people who will keep on working forever. That would be pure correlation

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#77

Post by safety1st »

ericmay wrote: post #29
nate wrote: post #14

We probably all have anecdotal evidence here, but my father is a perfect example of being no longer employed and a ton of stuff declining. Yes, cognitively, but a lot of health. We're talking not just your "career". He was a commercial real estate agent. But in his 80s he was working at Menards as a greeter and stocker. And it kept him busy. Getting out of the house. Figuring things out. Meeting and talking to people…

As a general comment, I'd like to say that getting out of the house is a hell of a lot easier when you don't have to drive everywhere to participate in daily life. So and so family member sits at home and watches TV all day is a phenomenon caused primarily by our car-centric culture which, for the elderly, is a barrier to staying healthy both mentally and physically.

I'm no fan of car culture but I think to say it's the primary cause of living a sedentary life at home is an overstatement. I deliberately moved somewhere where I could walk to everything I needed including a fantastic central train station, I no longer even own a car, and yet... over the years my habits changed and I now spend a ton of time at home. My motivation to go out has simply declined.

There is a relevant concept in psychology called activation energy, James Clear provides a good introduction to it. Certainly in recent years screens seem to be incentivizing more stay at home behavior. People used to not own a TV, many quite intentionally, before our other screens were invented. But it is a very complicated topic.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#78

Post by ashtonshears »

_blk wrote: post #38
ericmay wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a general comment, I'd like to say that getting out of the house is a hell of a lot easier when you don't have to drive everywhere to participate in daily life. So and so family member sits at home and watches TV all day is a phenomenon caused primarily by our car-centric culture which, for the elderly, is a barrier to staying healthy both mentally and physically.

Respectfully but strongly disagree. I'll argue you don't have to be a victim and can choose where you live if you plan ahead a little. There's plenty of places where a car is not necessary and even if people think a car's necessary I'm often the only one on a bicycle in many places.. It's doable if you're willing to put in the effort.

Please dont minimize disasterous societal policies, it is not respectful

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#79

Post by whatever120 »

tensor wrote: post #64
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #35

The problem isn't retirement per se, it is that people don't have things to occupy themselves with. They retire and they vegetate. I worked with a lady that was in her 70s who was deathly afraid of retiring because she didn't have anything to do. That's beyond depressing to me, to be incapable of even conceiving of doing something that doesn't involve going to a job. We have created people that never develop as human…

You hit the nail squarely on the head. In days past when people retired they'd still help raise kids or look after households. When we moved past requiring that sort of thing, we left the elderly without engagement. I'm not sure what the solution is, but perhaps as a society we could be more intentional about creating roles where the elderly can still help and feel useful, but also have flexibility and a more relaxed…

They shouldn’t just feel useful, they need roles that actually are useful. They’re not dumb.

Re: Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks

#80

Post by glouwbug »

MisterTea wrote: post #65
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #35

The problem isn't retirement per se, it is that people don't have things to occupy themselves with. They retire and they vegetate. I worked with a lady that was in her 70s who was deathly afraid of retiring because she didn't have anything to do. That's beyond depressing to me, to be incapable of even conceiving of doing something that doesn't involve going to a job. We have created people that never develop as human…

Every man I know that lived well into their 80's touching or breaking 90 were all active in some way. Once they stopped, they died shortly after. Though to be honest, they didn't stop by choice, usually from an injury or medical condition.

I’m going to say there’s some mixup of causation and correlation here
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