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Humanoid Robot Actuators

firgelli.com

71–80 of 82 posts

Re: Humanoid Robot Actuators

#71
post #49
post #35

How can we trust this article or the company if the writer/so-called chief engineer decides to hide himself behind an AI avatar? From what I can understand this is the Robbie Dickson in question: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lessons-from-a-serial-ent_b_9... Nobody has a problem with companies using AI to edit articles, create images. But when even the writer is an AI persona, the trust factor gets destroyed.

I think at very least, the diagrams are AI generated too. > https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0554/0567/4694/files/strai... The middle component has teeth on the inside half way round, should be smooth on the inside. > https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0554/0567/4694/files/inver... 4 of the 5 orbiting threaded rollers are perpendicular to the screw thread, so wont do anything. > https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0554…

Right. I'd noticed that the first image, of the harmonic drive, was wrong. The flexible ring gear can't have a disc closely attached; that would kill the flexibility that makes the whole thing go. In some designs, the flexible ring gear is just a ring. The inside of the ring has to be smooth. The elliptical plug is way too small; it has to fit the ring gear.

Harmonic drives are confusing enough. It's amazing that they back-drive at all.

Anything wrong in the text? I'm out of date in this area, and I was reading this as a nice catch-up. What else did they get wrong?

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=479Xay-Ulrs

Re: Humanoid Robot Actuators

#72
post #43

TLDR: we don't have the actuators required to make humanoid locomotion work reliably. Also: something every human actually kind of knows. You need to take impacts on muscles, not on mechanical connections. Even if we had the actuators required, you also need perfect control. The only way actuators can work this well is if they properly predict the impacts so that the power of the motor ("the magnetic field") can abso…

Naively it feels like the improvements to resistive losses ought to be so dramatic from this that we must already be at some sort of equilibrium position. Double the voltage and divide the resistive losses by 4 - that's neither a trivial gain nor seemingly difficult to achieve? We're not talking kVs here.

Re: Humanoid Robot Actuators

#73
post #38
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not make a robotic chair? Why not build our environment out of specialized robots instead of using a hammer for everything?

Sure, there are already robot vacuum cleaners, but I somehow fail to imagine how (a) specialized robot(s) that can e.g. sort your used laundry, wash it, dry it, iron it (if necessary), fold it and put it back into the cupboard would look like?

Well we got well past washing it by hand in a river. I don't think folding it and storing it in a robotic friendly container until requested would be such a demanding task with today's tech.

Re: Humanoid Robot Actuators

#74
post #15
post #10

I simply do not understand why you would ever prefer a fully humanoid robot as opposed to a humanoid torso on some other locomotion system.

Isaac Asimov already explained that better than I could ( https://www.reddit.com/r/asimov/comments/pm84ud/why_robots_a... ): > Besides that, our entire technology is based on the human form. An automobile, for instance, has its controls so made as to be grasped and manipulated most easily by human hands and feet of a certain size and shape, attached to the body by limbs of a certain length and joints of a certain typ…

But he was wrong already at the time. The world is made with humans in mind now. As soon as robots that are not human-like become useful enough, the world changes and adapts to them.

Just like the world had no asphalt and curbs before the car. Or just how heavily automated manufacture lines in factories have nothing that looks like a human can interact with it except a few buttoms here and there.

Re: Humanoid Robot Actuators

#76

I really like the idea of using two series elastic actuators in parallel on the same joint. This way motors acting in opposite direction can pre-tension the springs making the leg stiffer or softer. And if a lot of strength is needed they can act in the same direction summing their forces. It should be fairly straightforward to control dynamically so you can use pretty much any motor and gearbox.

That's an idea that predates series elastic actuators. It's been used in tendon robots, where there are two winding drums pulling on two cables, with a spring between the end of each cable and the load. The cables oppose each other. Tighten up both, and the joint becomes stiff. Loosen up both, and the joint becomes flexible. Like muscles. CWRU robotics liked this idea. Lightweight robot arms and painting robots have used it. Snake robots often work that way. Robot hands are often tendon driven.

Tendon robots are not popular for industrial use. The tendon cables wear out. Robots which do the same thing over and over wear their tendons at the same points. Not good in factory settings.

A useful model of a muscle is a spring and damper in parallel, like an auto suspension. The spring's neutral point, the spring's spring constant, and the damper's damping constant are all controllable. An actuator built that way can provide both force and position control, and can absorb shock loads. This is roughly how biological muscles behave.

The most practical actuator like that is a double-ended air cylinder. Each end has two proportional valves, to let air in from the air supply and to let air out to exhaust. Such devices can be tuned from stiff to rigid, held at any position, and can absorb shock loads, which just compress the air trapped in the cylinder. Festo, the German automation equipment manufacturer, is a leading promoter of that approach.[1] They've popularized precision pneumatic control with a computer managing the valves. Works great in factories where you can plug into a compressed air line. Festo has lots of videos online, if you like looking at pneumatic actuators.

A series elastic actuator is a different concept. It's a stiff spring on the end of a stiff screw-type linear actuator. Shock loads compress the spring, a sensor at the spring detects this, and the linear actuator is commanded to quickly spin up the motor and unload the spring. Force can be measured from the length of the spring. It's a way to fake a real force actuator with a cheap positional one.

This was a popular idea in research robotics, because it's something that can be put together from off the shelf components. It's a useful research tool. But it's not a very good actuator for large loads. There's a race between the applied load squeezing the spring and the motor spinning up to take off the load before the spring bottoms out. It's only useful for a limited load range. If the spring is too stiff, you still take a high shock load at the gear train. If the spring is too soft, the spring bottoms out before the motor can catch up. You can buy series elastic actuators from academic and hobbyist suppliers [2], but they're rarely seen in factories.

There's been much robot actuator progress in the last decade. Not miracles, just money and good specialized mechanical engineering.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GedJiaz_E1I

[2] https://www.hebirobotics.com/actuators

Re: Humanoid Robot Actuators

#78

Probably a dumb question, because I know nothing about robotics, but: > The "Zero RPM" Problem > When a robot bends its knees to stand, the motor must constantly fight gravity. There is no skeletal structure to lock against. To an electric motor, holding a static load—known as stall torque—is the most punishing state possible. Why not just add some kind of brake that can fully or partially lock the joint?

Complexity, weight, failure modes, wear, maintenance, support burden of legacy parts. Also the brake components are never in the same plane as the drive components, so now you have additional forces to engineer for.

It's just weight. If you remove the human scale constraint, you can use hydraulics and easily lock out all your joints with reasonable complexity and maintenance demands. If you're unfamiliar, just look up the history of electrohydrostatic actuators and see where they're at now.

https://www.moog.com/products/actuators-servoactuators/actua...

Re: Humanoid Robot Actuators

#79
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The YouTube channel linked is more of the same. Just the absolute worst slop

Actually, most videos seem to be real, run-of-the-mill showcases of various actuators the company sells. However, the owner seems to have added quite stupid AI-generated preview images lately.

The first video I clicked was an ai generated human reading an ai generated script describing why pulleys are important.

Re: Humanoid Robot Actuators

#80
post #35

How can we trust this article or the company if the writer/so-called chief engineer decides to hide himself behind an AI avatar? From what I can understand this is the Robbie Dickson in question: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lessons-from-a-serial-ent_b_9... Nobody has a problem with companies using AI to edit articles, create images. But when even the writer is an AI persona, the trust factor gets destroyed.

You evaluate the merits of the content? From a high-level systems pov, the article is largely correct, even if some details might be missed / simplified

How do you evaluate the merits of a graph of information? I usually read articles like this to learn something, not to grade someone else’s assignment.
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