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Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

nytimes.com

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Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#71

Post by rootlocus »

Manuel_D wrote: post #67
cogman10 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is something Lyft and Uber do, but it's not really possible in retail. It is possible for retail. For example, you can simply not display the price. You can display a price range. You can use EInk displays which auto-update based on who's approaching the item. And of course it's infinitely possible in an online store. One example of how this is being employed is McDonalds trying to push everyone to use the app…

How would that work? The barcode on the item doesn't get rewritten, the checkout counter can't distinguish who picked up which exact item. Even if they did assign unique barcodes to each item, what happens if you take the item off the shelf, and put it in someone else's cart? They'd be charged the wrong price for the item.

The store could make it mandatory to swipe your fidelity care before calculating your prices. They already do something similar with specialized promotions.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#72

Post by emsign »

dlcarrier wrote: post #53

Grocery stores have smaller margins and more options compared to pretty much any industry, yet politicians seem to think they are the cause of all of our ills.

No, grocery stores will be the weakest entry point to have the customer get used to get individual pricing. It's not the store owners themselves but big data businesses who do the pricing for them. Essentially taking the freedom away from the shops even further while at the same time squeezing even more money out of customers. This totally distorts supply and demand.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#73

Post by emsign »

xethos wrote: post #29
geuis wrote: post #15

Doesn't this then open a market for "vpn style" apps that make everyone look broke? Get the lowest prices (ie market/baseline) on every interaction from food delivery to airplane tickets?

You've actually got that backwards - being wealthy makes your time and effort worth more (to you) than the half-hour you'd spend price-comparing every item in the cart for each price difference (each between $0.03 and $2.00), while being poor makes price comparisons much more worth it Being more financially stable means you pay higher prices, in this scenario

Haha, no no no. I don't trust this to be true. Everyone will pay more or else the investment into this technology doen't break even.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#74

Post by protimewaster »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #31
kdheiwns wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't really turning them off as much as it is people having no choice. There aren't too many supermarket chains. If one chain does this, rather than other chains undercutting them on price, they're going to do the same to maximize their profits. Most people only have one or two stores near their home. Some maybe have three. That doesn't leave a lot of options. And if you or your family is hungry, you won…

>And if you or your family is hungry, you won't drive around for hours, burning gas, until you find a shop that saves you a few bucks. Sure, but if you felt you didn't get a good deal you're not going to go back. Like I personally don't know every single price at every single shop before I go, but I do know for example that Henry's Mercato or the Big Watermelon will have some kind of cheap bulk fruit, Aldi has cheape…

> Sure, but if you felt you didn't get a good deal you're not going to go back.

If you feel that way about all of them, you're not just going to starve to death, though. If you've got two options and they're both bad, you probably just go to one of them anyway.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#75

Post by emsign »

Good! Surveillance pricing needs to be regulated, it distorts supply and demand massively because one party (pricing service providers, big chain stores) has a MASSIVE information advantage other the others (end customers and small shop owners). It's going to finalize the transition from a free market to a oligopoly in the retail sector. It's basically socialism for a few powerful corporations.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#76

Post by Manuel_D »

rootlocus wrote: post #71
Manuel_D wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that work? The barcode on the item doesn't get rewritten, the checkout counter can't distinguish who picked up which exact item. Even if they did assign unique barcodes to each item, what happens if you take the item off the shelf, and put it in someone else's cart? They'd be charged the wrong price for the item.

The store could make it mandatory to swipe your fidelity care before calculating your prices. They already do something similar with specialized promotions.

If we're including promotions or membership discounts, then coupons fit this definition of price discrimination. And those have existed since the 90s at least.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#77

Post by 9dev »

afc wrote: post #68
9dev wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one thing, but charging two people for the same route differently is what the parent comment was getting at, and I agree with them.

You're literally saying "an airline, booking a flight 6 months out, 6 days out, or 6 hours out" is not "charging two people for the same route differently", completely missing the point of alex43578's excellent question.

I'm not. alex43578 was shifting the goalposts from the point cogman10 was making; I acknowledged what he said, but it was besides the point. An airline charging differently depending on the time ahead of flight is sensible. An airline charging differently depending on the buyer's home address is discrimination.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#78

Post by BrenBarn »

> Merchants face fines of $10,000 for running afoul of the law, and penalties of $25,000 for repeat offenses.

Another limp-wristed penalty. Why not something like "$1,000 per dollar that you received as payment for prices in violation"? Customer buys a $5 can of beans that was AI-priced, you owe $5,000. They buy another can, you owe another $5,000. You have it set for the whole store, wham, you now owe 1,000 times your gross revenue for that day. Better damn well not do it.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#79

Post by alex43578 »

9dev wrote: post #77
afc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're literally saying "an airline, booking a flight 6 months out, 6 days out, or 6 hours out" is not "charging two people for the same route differently", completely missing the point of alex43578's excellent question.

I'm not. alex43578 was shifting the goalposts from the point cogman10 was making; I acknowledged what he said, but it was besides the point. An airline charging differently depending on the time ahead of flight is sensible. An airline charging differently depending on the buyer's home address is discrimination.

You said "charging two people for the same route differently" is bad: airlines do that constantly and that's why there's dozens of fare changes, fare buckets, sales, codeshares, etc.

Regardless, the bigger point is that businesses already have a ton of levers to move for pricing: sales, loyalty programs, and regular price adjustments. None of those are considered discrimination. Why does the buyer's home address fall into this protected class; particularly for any service that involves transport, delivery, etc to that address? There's a clear relevancy of the address to the cost of a service based around that location.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#80

Post by clintonb »

cogman10 wrote: post #45
clintonb wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking of pricing zones—shoppers in Zone A pay a different price than those in Zone B. This makes sense, for example, if shipping costs are higher in Zone B. The bill in question is about per-shopper pricing (e.g, you and I pay different prices in the same store). This is something Lyft and Uber do, but it's not really possible in retail.

> This is something Lyft and Uber do, but it's not really possible in retail. It is possible for retail. For example, you can simply not display the price. You can display a price range. You can use EInk displays which auto-update based on who's approaching the item. And of course it's infinitely possible in an online store. One example of how this is being employed is McDonalds trying to push everyone to use the app…

Your plan fails in a few ways.

Refreshing the content on an electronic shelf label (ESL) takes about 30 seconds, and multiple people can view a product simultaneously. Unless the store is giving everyone AR glasses, people will notice the price discrepancy.

This assumes you have sufficient data to actually recognize a shopper such as facial ID or some form of iBeacon for every single product for which you wish to implement price discrimination. Basic ESLs cost $3 to $12, depending on size and use very little energy. Adding a camera means more energy, so a bigger battery and more cost.

Using in-app discounts is the most likely way to implement this, which I am okay with. Shoppers are willingly trading their data privacy for a discount.

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