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City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

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Re: City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

#71

Post by direwolf20 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #43
themafia wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is too much opportunity for crime, and a camera is cheap. The camera doesn't prevent crime. It just displaces it. Even when it doesn't it will not prevent the crime from happening. It _may_ provide you an opportunity to prosecute the person who committed it. In reality the only real reason to have one is to reduce your insurance premiums. > crime has been solved A perpetrator was potentially caught and now ha…

> The camera doesn't prevent crime. It just displaces it. Even when it doesn't it will not prevent the crime from happening. It _may_ provide you an opportunity to prosecute the person who committed it. And that is worth something in itself, at least in areas where disputes between people are the norm. Gyms in particular suffer from theft to sexual harassment.

Filming people at the gym is sexual harassment.

Re: City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

#72

Post by cnst »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #48

All Flock footage should be subject to FOIA requests.

An underrated comment. But sunlight is the best disinfectant.

I think it's the fundamental issue with these cameras, that it takes pictures of us, but we ourselves cannot access it. Even though it was us who has paid for it!

Re: City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

#73

Post by amelius »

aleksiy123 wrote: post #3

While I think this isn’t great. Why is the camera there in the first place?? Presumably there are people that have access to it. And if you are demoing software that connects to cameras, then someone gave the sales guy access to those cameras. I’m also assuming those probably weren’t the only cameras…

> Presumably there are people that have access to it.

Could also be AI.

Re: City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

#74

Post by neltnerb »

subscribed wrote: post #24
fragmede wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a school shooter was in your children's daycare, wouldn't you want there to be cameras so you knew where they were? ...is how I imagine that one goes.

Cameras would get shot first. Come on.

Why? They likely don't plan to make it out and it'll make them more famous after.

Re: City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

#75

Post by amanaplanacanal »

direwolf20 wrote: post #70
jjmarr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the Marcus Jewish Community Center of Atlanta. Jewish Community Centers are targeted more for attacks than a YMCA.

[flagged]

Pretty sure some Atlanta organization has exactly zero to do with whatever Holocaust you are thinking of.

Re: City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

#76

Post by dghlsakjg »

l72 wrote: post #33
bluGill wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any sane business that has lots of random people coming in will have cameras recording (except in bathrooms/locker rooms). There is too much opportunity for crime, and a camera is cheap. If something happens you pull up the feed from the last month and give the interesting parts to the police; most often you just delete everything after a month. More than one crime has been solved this way. That said, if there wasn't…

The problem isn't having cameras. Its that these cameras should be closed circuit with data residing locally, not being sent to a 3rd party that has full access to the video streams, and who processes them, combines them with other parties, resells data from them, or hands them over without a warrant!

Ok, and bear with me, but what if that third party needs to do a sales demo and the client can only be convinced by seeing live footage of stranger’s children in a gymnastics class or at the pool in their swimsuits?

I really don’t see how we can avoid having our cities hand over this data sight unseen to a company with a history of enabling stalkers and overzealous policing.

I haven’t checked this, but based on the enthusiasm for this technology, I assume that crime clearance rates are near 100% in cities with these cameras.

(/s)

Re: City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

#77

Post by not_ai »

neltnerb wrote: post #74
subscribed wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cameras would get shot first. Come on.

Why? They likely don't plan to make it out and it'll make them more famous after.

Exactly. If anything they will want to target those schools more. They want to be famous, they idolize each other.

Re: City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

#78

Post by dghlsakjg »

themafia wrote: post #65
SauntSolaire wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The camera doesn't prevent crime. It just displaces it. That's why I periodically leave a bunch of bicycles with cheap locks downtown. They act like a kind of criminal sacrificial anode, reducing crime in the rest of the city.

That's why the police don't enforce drug laws in _particular_ areas. What you describe is obviously already happening on a much larger scale. I'm not sure why people have trouble grasping something this basic.

Because many of us who live in cities have experience with police being completely feckless.

I have experienced multiple times when I tell police that I have video evidence of a crime happening as well as evidence of the identity of the criminal and they won’t even look at it. I once had a cop tell me that I shouldn’t bother with a report with witnesses and evidence and a known perpetrator since it would never get investigated. That cop got punished for telling the truth, although they were 100% correct, the detective on the case never even opened the file. The detective was not punished.

Re: City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

#79

Post by xp84 »

mulmen wrote: post #64
heironimus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen dozens of these types of demos and it’s always live footage from a semi public place like this. It’s much easier to just show live footage rather than rig up canned looping footage. It’s pretty astonishing how no one watching the demo with me seems to care. No one asking “Hey, will you just be able to do this with our video if we buy from you?”

Does this mean there is no testing environment?

Generally on multi-tenant SaaS kind of systems you do have testing environments, but they're filled with garbage data, plus they are usually running pre-release versions that aren't yet ready for the light of day. It's where QA and CI/CD operates. Sales demos are generally done on a production environment, but on dedicated tenants that are set up with "nice looking" well-organized data (e.g. company is named Contoso, users have names like "Jason Anderson" and "Maria Ramirez"). Testing environments have users with names like "1111111" and "`alert(window.domain);`"

I think it's probably a just laziness here, which makes some sense - it would be easy to set up 5 Flock cameras on the sales demo tenant sitting in a storage room at HQ, but it would make for incredibly uncompelling demo. Rather than set up a pipeline to run stock footage in as a camera feed, they got lazy and used real tenants.

Re: City Learns Flock Accessed Cameras in Children's Gymnastics Room as a Sales Demo

#80

Post by dghlsakjg »

mschuster91 wrote: post #43
themafia wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is too much opportunity for crime, and a camera is cheap. The camera doesn't prevent crime. It just displaces it. Even when it doesn't it will not prevent the crime from happening. It _may_ provide you an opportunity to prosecute the person who committed it. In reality the only real reason to have one is to reduce your insurance premiums. > crime has been solved A perpetrator was potentially caught and now ha…

> The camera doesn't prevent crime. It just displaces it. Even when it doesn't it will not prevent the crime from happening. It _may_ provide you an opportunity to prosecute the person who committed it. And that is worth something in itself, at least in areas where disputes between people are the norm. Gyms in particular suffer from theft to sexual harassment.

Notably, it can serve that purpose without being part of a national network, or being remotely accessible by a sales team for the camera maker.
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