Mike: open-source legal AI

The answer is: the market will work it out eventually. Clients will push for more work to be fixed-fee/outcome-based rather than billed hourly. There'll be some small firms who'll successfully grab lots of lower value clients who are willing to use digital tools to handle their work and don't particularly care about having a big fancy office in London or New York if it means lower bills (and they can then basically use the relationship they've had providing the supervised online service to be the first point of call when said client wants something that's less off-the-shelf and needs more work).

Also, an interesting example: in English litigation (where, broadly, loser pays unlike America where each side pays), maximising billable hours is not always a viable strategy for anybody if those costs aren't recoverable on success. Someone involved in large-scale commercial litigation involving disclosure of millions of documents who doesn't use algorithmic document classification (now pretty broadly accepted as normal) potentially runs the risk of a judge determining that the costs of going through all the documents by hand isn't recoverable. Insurers/litigation funders aren't going to want to risk padding the costs so much that the judge prevents them from recovering their stake in the litigation.

Customers using their own LLMs: yep, they might do that. I think the pitch from the legal LLM providers is "we've got legally trained people doing RLHF to make it more accurate" mixed in with "also we've got a partnership with Lexis/Westlaw/etc. so we can do legal research that's better than what's on the open web", with a little bit of "if you get sued for professional negligence, 'I used the legal AI thing that's built into Westlaw' is gonna be more convincing to a judge and jury (and your insurance company) than 'I used ChatGPT, yes, like the app you've got on your phone'...".

Maybe it's just me, but seems strange to not include what countries legal system this is for, and having it prominently front and center?

Since this is HN, I guess it's fair to assume it's for the US, but since English is used in more countries than the US, wouldn't it be a good idea to say outright what countries legal systems this actually understands and supports? Or is it maybe meant to be country-agnostic somehow? If so, that isn't very clear either.

Legal professional here. This is NOT a replacement for proper legal AI assistants (e.g. Westlaw, in my jurisdiction). As far as I can tell, this is just a wrapper around regular LLMs i.e. nothing that you couldn't achieve yourself with the right prompting.

What legal professionals actually pay for, and that is virtually impossible to replicate unfortunately, is to give the AI access to a legal database of case law. Without case law, you can't do accurate legal research, and you are inviting disaster if you're doing things like drafting statements of case or skeleton arguments.

There's a reason why companies like Thomson Reuters have an oligopoly on these types of products, and can get away with charging thousands a year. They are the only ones with access to a comprehensive set of case law, and they've entrenched their position by having exclusive contracts with the law reporting companies. Without that, your model is just relying on publicly available cases that it can find on Google etc., and that's just a fraction of the full set.

With that said, these types of competitor products can be useful if you're just doing simple tasks like drafting letters or reviewing contracts and you accept that you need to do the legal research separately. But again, you can get that with just ChatGPT + a good prompt.

Maybe you check every citation, but there have been several news stories recently of lawyers using LLMs and using completely fabricated cases without verifying they exist

We're in this weird in-between phase of the tech world where projects like this can now be put together in a few hours/days, but the audience of us HN folk are still trained on the idea that this is the result of months or years of work.

We're going to have to re-train ourselves on what hard work looks like (and thus what should be upvoted here).

I don't know whether the project's creator (@willchen96?) is a lawyer, or if they work at a law firm that helped them shape this, or how much time and effort they put into this, or whether law firms even want or need a vibe-coded open source project for their legal AI stack, but we should be considering the totality of those things when looking at new projects these days.

There's a lot of red flags here.