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Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

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Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#71

Post by oezi »

tristanj wrote: post #47
drob518 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s rare for military technology to completely “move on” to other things. Typically, the new just gets added to the old. So, yea, drones are new, but drones don’t cause artillery to become completely obsolete, in the same way that aerial bombs didn’t cause artillery to become obsolete. You’ll end up spending on both.

Ukraine has essentially moved-on from artillery to drones, just last month (March 2026) drones caused 96% of Russian casualties. Artillery and small arms fire accounted for the rest. Also, artillery has a maximum effective range of ~30km. Ukraine's drone kill-zone is 20km and with newer drones pushing to 50-100km. By next year it won't even possible to bring artillery and a large number of shells into the frontlines…

Of the confirmed casualties. Much easier to give kill numbers if you have video evidence from a drone. Doesn't mean that artillery strikes are any less lethal even though they don't give such clear confirmation pictures.

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#72

Post by hkpack »

amarant wrote: post #42
varispeed wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it puzzling why they won't pivot to industries that actually matter like making competition to Micron or Samsung and manufacture RAM at scale. Amping up military production is basically a reaction to certain countries electing maniacal pedos as presidents instead of jailing them.

When Russia is knocking at your door, weapons do matter. Even moreso than cellphones.

It is upsetting that you get downvoted. I think people in the US are thinking that a war is impossible or something, and looking for a stereotypical response.

Instead, for an eastern and central European countries, a war is the real threat. The chance to lose a war with Russia backed by China is very real.

And the reason it is real is the loss of protection from the US. It is no longer guaranteed that the US will participate once Russia invades, and that makes the invasion itself almost inevitable.

Participation of the US is important only because it has a massive stockpile of WMD. It is obvious for everyone that US is not prepared for a modern war on the ground against a real power.

Prosperity and economic growth doesn't really matter when you are threatened with losing the massive war with causalities calculated in millions.

You first want to secure and guarantee peace for the future, and then you think about economy, competition and so forth.

And massively increasing weapons production is the way to avoid the big war.

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#73

Post by Barrin92 »

varispeed wrote: post #36
heyheyhouhou wrote: post #23

German industry is changing a lot loosing against China, so they have been moving to war related stuff for the past years. Personally, I know a bunch of people who were offered get transferred from VW to a military drone company. On one side I understand that manufacturing a lot of weapons could be somehow a protection for the future, but also Germany provides a lot of ammunition to Israel that is killing thousands o…

I find it puzzling why they won't pivot to industries that actually matter like making competition to Micron or Samsung and manufacture RAM at scale. Amping up military production is basically a reaction to certain countries electing maniacal pedos as presidents instead of jailing them.

we're currently (indirectly) engaged in the largest land war since WW II in Europe so weapons do matter. But also the second part of that sentence isn't true, the former East German States, Saxony in particular have been building out a pretty strong microelectronics industry. See: https://silicon-saxony.de/en/

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#74

Post by beachy »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #27
Havoc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need both. See Ukraine needing mountains of artillery despite the pre war consensus being that the artillery era is over The drones make the news but can’t be the only weapon you bring

The same pre war consensus also thought that war with Russia was unthinkable, it is Russia that focused on artillery tactics so the two assumptions went hand in hand. It’s my opinion that artillery is out of date and by the end of the Ukraine war they will be even more out of date. It’s hard to make artillery more cost effective than it already is yet still many more opportunities to increase drone effectiveness.

Artillery is just one piece in the puzzle and it has its place, with drone spotting. You can't jam a shell.

But once your artillery positions can't be protected from drones then its game over for sure.

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#75

Post by scottyah »

vkou wrote: post #37
arjie wrote: post #17

I always wonder about these production numbers in the military. The US has a large military complex and Germany is an industrial power and North Korea is a small military autocracy suffering from raw material shortages, but Googling around I see[0]: > The expert also said that the North’s annual production estimate of 2 million 152-millimeter artillery shells is premised on peacetime manufacturing rates. But here Ger…

The US spends much of its defense budget on building expensive high-tech toys and maintaining 11 carrier strike groups, because it's military priorities are, in decreasing priority: * Making sure everyone loses a MAD nuclear war * Maintaining undisputed naval dominance in five oceans. * Bombing people on its imperial adventures all around the world. * Offering security and protection in exchange for military and econ…

The US spends most of its defense budget on:

* training, civilian salaries (where most veterans find jobs)

* maintenance of existing "toys" (aka money injected into local manufacturing, cleaning, painting, etc)

* Enlisted pay, benefits, housing

Then we get to procurement and R&D (which is just guaranteeing a job to people who finish college)

The whole active navy and world policing is just a side benefit.

https://www.pgpf.org/article/budget-explainer-national-defen...

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#76

Post by jyounker »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #48
varispeed wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it puzzling why they won't pivot to industries that actually matter like making competition to Micron or Samsung and manufacture RAM at scale. Amping up military production is basically a reaction to certain countries electing maniacal pedos as presidents instead of jailing them.

Presumably because those markets are difficult to break into whereas Germany can sell defense equipment to allied countries pretty easily (they don’t need to compete with China because Germany’s allies largely don’t want to be dependent on China militarily for geopolitical reasons).

Because Russia is waging open war with one of Germany's allies, and has been preparing for war against the Baltic states.

It's not like Germany is far away either. The Western edge of Ukraine is, in some places, closer to Berlin than the Western edge of Germany.

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#77

Post by jyounker »

magicalhippo wrote: post #64
lopsotronic wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to be both, and it's because of physics. At this moment, the best way to put kinetic energy into an enemy is sticking some quantity of explosive on them. You have a few ways of going about this. Two we consider today: 1) a chemical charge launches a block of explosive ballistically at a closing range of mach 2-5, 2) a complex assembly of plastic/rare earths/silicon/PCBAs flies over to the enemy at somewher…

But artillery only has a short range, less than 50-60km. Ukraina is bombing trucks with FPV drones at that range now. So you'd need serious anti-drone capabilities to get the artillery close enough, and good luck if you have it sitting around deployed for any lenghth of time.

Modern artillery doesn't sit in fixed emplacements. It fires a few shells, and then moves. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_artillery_system

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#78

Post by 948382828528 »

walrus01 wrote: post #34
inquirerGeneral wrote: post #10

[flagged]

The actual risks of modern day Germany going on a hegemonic rampage across Europe are extremely low. Their interests these days are much more aligned with maintaining proper democratic institutions, the EU, and being a voice for the free non-russia-aligned world.

[dead]

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#79

Post by 948382828528 »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #16
tristanj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany (currently) isn't even in the top 5 for military drone manufacturing. The ranking of number of military drones produced per year goes Ukraine (millions), China (millions), Russia (hundreds of thousands), Iran (hundreds of thousands), then the US (tens of thousands), followed by Turkey and Israel (mid-thousands). German manufacturing is in the low thousands per year. This is a major national security issue, Ge…

Attack Germany, see what happens.

[dead]

Re: Germany has become the largest ammunition producer in the world

#80

Post by deepsun »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #40
arjie wrote: post #17

I always wonder about these production numbers in the military. The US has a large military complex and Germany is an industrial power and North Korea is a small military autocracy suffering from raw material shortages, but Googling around I see[0]: > The expert also said that the North’s annual production estimate of 2 million 152-millimeter artillery shells is premised on peacetime manufacturing rates. But here Ger…

The US doesn't use that much artillery as a matter of tactics. A significant portion of their capacity exists to support other countries. Artillery is suited for combat with clear lines of confrontation. US doctrine actively tilts the battlefield so that these lines don't form, which plays to their strengths.

And US rely a lot on naval power.

USA has a very advantageous geo position of oceans on two sides. So it's really hard for an enemy to show up with a ground army and continuous supply lines (like Russia). And US makes the military strategy to prevent that by all costs.

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