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The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

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71–80 of 92 posts

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#71
post #2

Just wondering... What is Intellgience?

An ambiguous metric that's been (ab)used quite a lot by human fundamentalists to try to draw a line between what we can do and what machines can do, in order to feel better about themselves.

Or were you looking for a different definition?

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#72

We are already on the cusp of fully automated reasoning, and once we have fully automated reasoning, OpenAI and Anthropic can just dedicate part of their compute towards generating new high quality novel output, which will then be fed as training data during pretraining of subsequent models.

The reality is that we are hitting a plateau that’s taking us as far as transformer architecture will allow us. Until another breakthrough happens, I heavily doubt we’re on the cusp of anything, instead it’s clear that things are levelling out.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#73
post #2

Just wondering... What is Intellgience?

Substance that can hold State that can allow the substance to produce more of the same state in a dangerous universe full of entropy that wants to remove state-full entities by default - and which is prowled by other state-full entities which predate one another, in such a way that game theory and evolutionary pressure applies.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#75

This feels like a restating of the idea that for any given endeavor AI raises the floor of quality but doesn't push the ceiling.

My reading of the article is that it claims the ceiling is lowered, especially in the longer term.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#76

Generative AI is the average of all human knowledge

Not to be too hippy/dippy, but it's only the average of all human knowledge expressible in language. There is plenty of knowledge not expressible this way - for example, the sequence of muscle contraction orchestrated by your brain that allows you to walk. Likewise with feelings like love, pride, etc. There are words for these things, but they're merely labels on an experience that almost all humans know but the specifics of which can't be written down using text.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#77
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We might both agree its a poor definition, but at least it's a poor definition that's observable and neutral. That's useful in regards to this conversation. Where as the other answer is simply "I can't say, but it's not [this]" and that isn't useful at all. It's simply opinion, which is literally the worst definition around. Personally, I don't define intelligence as "whatever qsera acknowledges as intelligence with…

I think it is useless as a definition, so not even a poor one. But here you go, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47918103

I have a two year old that can't count. She can definitely walk around, talk, eat, and do all sorts of other things that I would argue indicate some form of intelligence.

Same for my dog.

Same for entire cultures, including adult humans (anumeric cultures).

Arguably, they're constantly doing calculus, because they can walk, throw, catch, etc - but none of them can count.

---

That said, to the point of my original comment - forcing a definition was absolutely useful, because it allows a more detailed and interesting conversation than "qsera doesn't believe an LLM is intelligent".

I agree that one is a poor definition, though. I also don't really think it rules out LLMs.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#78
post #50

Generative AI is the average of all human knowledge

Why does it need to be the average? It seems to me more like it models the manifold of human knowledge. However we often query for the average, because that is often good enough and gives us quick results, but there is nothing fundamentally preventing us from sending AI into the deep end of under-explored territory and perhaps coming back with something new. It is ultimately the exploration vs exploitation trade off.

> but there is nothing fundamentally preventing us from sending AI into the deep end of under-explored territory and perhaps coming back with something new

What's stopping us is that AI works by manipulating tokens and language but has no connection to reality as it exists. Einstein famously conceived of special relativity by imagining what it would be like to fly alongside a light wave[1]. This is a process that integrates spatial reasoning and imagination informed by living in the real universe where you can see objects moving or waves propagating in a pond. The language only comes later as a means of communicating these intuitions to others.

[1] https://sites.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/Goodies/Chasing_the_light/

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#79
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is useless as a definition, so not even a poor one. But here you go, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47918103

I have a two year old that can't count. She can definitely walk around, talk, eat, and do all sorts of other things that I would argue indicate some form of intelligence. Same for my dog. Same for entire cultures, including adult humans (anumeric cultures). Arguably, they're constantly doing calculus, because they can walk, throw, catch, etc - but none of them can count. --- That said, to the point of my original com…

You are not getting it or getting it all very wrong..

Is a robot that can walk, throw and catch is intelligent?

Last day there was a robot that can play ping pong? Is that intelligent?

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