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Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

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Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#71

Post by gausswho »

kotaKat wrote: post #26
gausswho wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News. Where you either die a pissant or become the villain with a fistful of RSUs.

I sure wish I was wealthy and had a fistful of RSUs. You wanna send me some? I make 5% over my area's 80% median income and I can't even get housing because I "make too much money" despite being $3000 too rich. I'm pretty tired of being the network guy in the field playing remote hands having to be on the front lines of all of this bullshit having to explain to decision makers that a bunch of shitty kids are running…

I apologize. My response was a flippant attempt at humor and I didn't mean to personalize that at you. I have had those days where I had to clean up the mess left behind by a merry prankster. They aren't fun days.

Sometimes the deviant act will get a nod of appreciation from me, but not if an AI did all the heavy lifting. I keep a labor-of-love website up and am increasingly swatting away scrapers in an attempt not to get slammed with a bankruptcy-tier cloud bill.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#72

Post by master-lincoln »

mschuster91 wrote: post #36
master-lincoln wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the transport medium changing anything? To me this is about having protocols that are suitable so not anybody can write to these labels without knowing a store secret or using replay attacks.

> How is the transport medium changing anything? it's mostly about efficiency. IR based, an employee needs to physically walk around. RF based, place a transmitter or two in the building and the system now works fully automated.

Sorry about not being explicit. I meant how it changes anything security-wise.

With the same vulnerable protocol the RF system is as easy to attack with bigger consequences then it seems....

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#73

Post by stavros »

manarth wrote: post #39
stavros wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't you also not just check stuff in? These are all obvious drawbacks, it's not really a high-scrutiny environment.

Most self-checkouts I've come across have weight validation – "Unexpected item in the bagging area". Categorising things as "bananas" tricks the checkout into accepting the weight of an item, and you pay the appropriate price per bananagram.

Agreed, but there's nobody looking if you're putting the items in the bagging area or not. You could simply leave an item last, pay, put it in the bag, and go. They do have (prominent) cameras over the tills I've seen, though, not sure if that's just "we see you" or if they're doing some item recognition with that.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#74

Post by petterroea »

kimos wrote: post #64
petterroea wrote: post #55

It's always funny when people publish source code and have a disclaimer saying "You CANNOT use it for bad!". When is the last time a criminal read such a disclaimer and thought "Oh right, guess this isn't for me"? Sure, at least the developer can say they did say so, but it doesn't matter. To me it seems more like avoiding responsibility. You published the tool, and by doing so you changed the world, even minutely, a…

I think it’s trying to demonstrate intent. “This is cool and hacking is fun” vs “Here is a tool to do bad things”. I don’t think it would much protect you from consequences, but it can change perception of the intent of the project.

I think you are right, it just feels useless.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#75

Post by rickdeckard »

master-lincoln wrote: post #72
mschuster91 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is the transport medium changing anything? it's mostly about efficiency. IR based, an employee needs to physically walk around. RF based, place a transmitter or two in the building and the system now works fully automated.

Sorry about not being explicit. I meant how it changes anything security-wise. With the same vulnerable protocol the RF system is as easy to attack with bigger consequences then it seems....

The RF system doesn't use the same protocol, it's a new protocol (to potentially hack and reverse-engineer).

The early shelf-label systems were IR-based, sold in bulk and were programmed manually using handheld devices held against them.

Most shelf-label solutions of today are part of a service-model, where gateways are mounted in the store to wirelessly update any label on price-change, often orchestrated remotely so store-chains can update all shops simultaneously.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#76

Post by bpoyner »

compton93 wrote: post #49
Aboutplants wrote: post #29

I was in college when self checkout became a thing and it took us all of about 45 seconds to realize that you could just check everything out as bananas. Steak was weighed and priced at 4011 (banana code) as the stoned teenager cashier paid no attention. Everything on the receipt was literally Bananas

That's crazy. But coming from someone who wrote a book on retail fraud and worked as a retail fraud analyst for several years... you could have just walked straight out with those items. Transacting was your way of leaving a calling card for the investigators/analysts to find you... You stole regardless of how you did it.

That's _bananas_.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#77

Post by cwmoore »

hrimfaxi wrote: post #69
dfxm12 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about blaming the grocery store replacing workers with no one in particular before you blame some college pranksters. Grocery stores in general consolidating, laying off workers, leaving them without pay/benefits, taking advantage of greedflation, etc., is a bigger drain on society.

Ah yes, let's blame some shadowy "big grocery" rather than point our fingers at individual bad actors.

Why deal with problem systems when we can punish someone we caught?

That is your thought process?

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#78

Post by cwmoore »

tamimio wrote: post #53
Aboutplants wrote: post #29

I was in college when self checkout became a thing and it took us all of about 45 seconds to realize that you could just check everything out as bananas. Steak was weighed and priced at 4011 (banana code) as the stoned teenager cashier paid no attention. Everything on the receipt was literally Bananas

Careful, the law is lenient if you steal from other normal people, but as soon as you steal from the wealthy, try to fraud them, you will see all sort of laws to make sure you are an example to others so they never think about doing the same, but a normal person? Oh well, you should have paid for insurance, or suck it up. On the other hand, the wealthy can lobby, inflate the prices overnight just because, while also…

Not careful enough

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#79

Post by kimos »

petterroea wrote: post #74
kimos wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s trying to demonstrate intent. “This is cool and hacking is fun” vs “Here is a tool to do bad things”. I don’t think it would much protect you from consequences, but it can change perception of the intent of the project.

I think you are right, it just feels useless.

Maybe! It won’t change liability. But perception is important too.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#80

Post by tiberious726 »

rickdeckard wrote: post #7
voidUpdate wrote: post #2

I still don't think I've seen an actually useful application for a Flipper Zero. It's all just "use this to change store price tags" or "here's how to disconnect all bluetooth devices", but also "don't actually use this, because it would be illegal, this is just for educational purposes"

Beside of how the media often tries to present it, the value of Flipper Zero is not for everyone to "become a hacker with this simple app". Its value is to provide a standardized hardware platform for (white hat) hackers for probing, prototyping, refining and sharing of security research in the fields its hardware supports (Sub-GHz RF, NFC, IR, and custom external boards via simple Input/Output pins). Prior to that,…

There is much better hardware available to security researchers (chameleons, hackrf, and actually research-grade (much more expensive) equipment).

The flipper is basically an Arduino pre built with a bunch of static antennas. It's fine and in a decent form factor, but I really haven't found it useful.

Do you have any links to actual research (not children playing "researcher") done with flipper hardware?

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