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Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

steve-yegge.medium.com

71–80 of 183 posts

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we can do better than "that man is crazy". Why not pull up a line in his OPENLY AVAILABLE CODE BASE and mock that instead?

Beads, his glorified CLI based work tracker, was over several hundred thousand lines of code, last I checked in January. Where do I even begin to mock that except at the source? That’s just absolute insanity.

[flagged]

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#72
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post personal attacks to HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. Thoughtful critique is of course fine but there's no need to be personal, and it should be something we can learn from. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Does the apparent rugpull on the $GAS meme coin[0] qualify? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Yegge#Vibe_coding_and_cr...

To me, no, not quite. I'll give him one free pass. More like "I'll coast on this pulled rug to see what happens" than that he did the rug pull. Not a very wise thing to do, but not malicious either.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#73
Beads is cool, but I tried to use it, and the backend didn't really make sense. I have to run an sql database in the background? How does it sync with Git? (I didn't see any files/objects committed to the repo) Plus, Dolt ended up using a constant 3-30kB/s of i/o in the background, while nothing was actually going on. That and Beads has a lot of features I'm not gonna use. All of this was just too complicated for my tiny brain.

So I slapped together my own Beads implementation (https://codeberg.org/mutablecc/dingles) over a day or two. Probably has bugs, and I'm sure race conditions if you tried to use with Gas Town, and likely does not scale. But it has the minimum functionality needed to create and track issues and sync them (locally and remotely, either via normal merge, or a dedicated ticket branch). No SQL, no extra features, just JSONL and Git. Threw a whole large software project at it, and the AI took to it like a duck to water, used it to make epics for the whole project, methodically worked through them all, dependencies first, across multiple context sessions. The paradigm of making tools the AI wants to use is clearly a winner.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beads, his glorified CLI based work tracker, was over several hundred thousand lines of code, last I checked in January. Where do I even begin to mock that except at the source? That’s just absolute insanity.

[flagged]

> If its all obviously shit then it shouldn't be that hard. Maybe point Claude at it and ask it to find stupid stuff.

What does that even mean? Am I supposed to point Claude at garbage code bases? All it will find is garbage.

> My point is that just calling him names has no substance, but mocking his source specifically does.

He is the source. He wrote this stuff under his own volition.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#75

> But no need to wait. At a high level, Gas City is the answer to all your problems. Ha! At least, for certain classes of problem, such as, “How can I bring AI into my company and pass an audit trail,” The important audit at my company is conducted by the FDA. I have a feeling when they ask what processes we followed to mitigate any user harm that could be caused by software changes that "I told an AI-mayor in the fo…

I did an induction at some ISO certified company some years back, reading their docs. A good 50% of them contained significant content that basically read: > the thing must be in the place where it should be With no further information e.g. what place, where, how, when, who facilitates that? > the person who facilitates it, is the person who facilitates it. Yea thanks. So their ISO accredited process was basically no…

Which ISO certification matters, but the key thing people should be aware of is that the primary value of the certification to customers is that your processes are documented and that deviations are tracked, so that customers can check whether the processes makes sense before signing a contract. It's important not to expect the certification itself to guarantee quality.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#76
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post personal attacks to HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. Thoughtful critique is of course fine but there's no need to be personal, and it should be something we can learn from. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Does the apparent rugpull on the $GAS meme coin[0] qualify? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Yegge#Vibe_coding_and_cr...

The description on Wikipedia looks like somebody else created a memecoin in his honor, sent him the profits, and he accepted them? And the only people harmed were people who invest in random memecoins? I don't understand the problem.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#77
Does Yegge really think that building production software this way is a good idea?

Let's assume that managing context well is a problem and that this kind of orchestration solves it. But I see another problem with agents:

When designing a system or a component we have ideas that form invariants. Sometimes the invariant is big, like a certain grand architecture, and sometimes it's small, like the selection of a data structure. Eventually, though, you want to add a feature that clashes with that invariant. At that point there are usually three choices:

* Don't add the feature. The invariant is a useful simplifying principle and it's more important than the feature; it will pay dividends in other ways.

* Add the feature inelegantly or inefficiently on top of the invariant. Hey, not every feature has to be elegant or efficient.

* Go back and change the invariant. You've just learnt something new that you hadn't considered and puts things in a new light, and it turns out there's a better approach.

Often, only one of these is right. Usually, one of these is very, very wrong, and with bad consequences.

But picking among them isn't a matter of context. It's a matter of judgment and the models - not the harnesses - get this judgment wrong far too often (they go with what they know - the "average" of their training - or they just don't get it). So often, in fact, that mistakes quickly accumulate and compound, and after a few bad decisions like this the codebase is unsalvageable. Today's models are just not good enough (yet) to create a complete sustainable product on their own. You just can't trust them to make wise decisions. Study after study and experiement after experiment show this.

Now, perhaps we make better judgment calls because we have context that the agent doesn't. But we can't really dump everything we know, from facts to lessons, and that pertains to every abstraction layer of the software, into documents. Even if we could, today's models couldn't handle them. So even if it is a matter of context, it is not something that can be solved with better context management. Having an audit trail is nice, but not if it's a trail of one bad decision after another.

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#79
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're keeping gas and coal plants online to power this or using gas generators to power data centers, I'd consider that a wasteful contributing factor.

but we could also argue that not investing in extra non-fossil fuel capacity is the issue here. OR not investing in more research on super conductors and/or storage. Iceland could possibly export considerable amounts of renewable energy if we licked those problems. I mean, under the same logic couldn't we kinda argue that TV has ruined the planet? A lot of energy for something of debatable physical value. OR Motor ra…

I suppose one could, but none of those are primary economic drivers with dim prospects for turning a profit (well, I suppose that may be true of TV).

Re: Gas Town: From Clown Show to v1.0

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> If its all obviously shit then it shouldn't be that hard. Maybe point Claude at it and ask it to find stupid stuff. What does that even mean? Am I supposed to point Claude at garbage code bases? All it will find is garbage. > My point is that just calling him names has no substance, but mocking his source specifically does. He is the source. He wrote this stuff under his own volition.

We're supposed to be engineers. Criticising a concept based on conjecture and insult is unbecoming of our culture.
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