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NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

grocerydive.com

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Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#71

Post by jmyeet »

koolba wrote: post #11
yohannparis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does everything needs to be economically viable?

Because that’s what has traditionally allowed western countries to have a wide availability and inventory of goods vs communist economies.

Counter point: China.

Economic viability isn't what led to "wide availability and inventory". No, it's imperialism. It's exploitation of the Global South. It's paying slave wages through subsidiaries in West Africa to cocoa farmers while making sure those countries stay poor, for example.

We also wage economic war on our our anointed enemies like Cuba and then use the inevitable result of that economic warfare as a reason why our system is good.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#72

Post by kennywinker »

fortran77 wrote: post #39
miketery wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we can does not mean we should. Here's how this will pan out. - A number of "officials" (friends) will get cushy jobs for running this program. - It will lose millions of tax dollars - a small portion of the population will get cheaper produce for a photo op - Mamdani and friends will call it a success - But net, this will be net negative for the city (ie. tax dollars to crony jobs and subsidizing food f…

It also doesn't seem fair to compete against stores that have to pay rent and taxes.

A gov run grocery store will have to pay rent and taxes.

The only difference is it doesn’t have to make profits to pay its owners.

The question is, why are you prioritizing being “fair” to people profiting off hunger, over being fair to working people trying to eat? Even if it is “unfair” this is a kind of unfair we should all support (assuming it succeeds at feeding people).

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#73

Post by asdff »

philipallstar wrote: post #49
darth_avocado wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is government directly engaging in commerce such a controversial topic. The government already does it in various forms: VA hospitals, Medicare price negotiations, government subsidies in agriculture, owning 10% of Intel etc.

I wouldn't argue that the US healthcare system is so good that no market distortion can be detected from its current structure.

>Charges $100 for a tylenol because insurance or medicare will blindly pay for it

Yup no distortions here just good old fashion free market!

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#74

Post by itishappy »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #50
flats wrote: post #12

I was very skeptical of these plans at first—as a New Yorker, I don’t exactly have a lot of trust in our city’s government to run things well. But I’ve come around. Let’s try something new! Let’s show people that local governments in the United States really are capable of making a difference in their daily lives. If it fails, well, we tried & we’ll keep trying.

"Hey, let's try something new!" without a plan for success is just a recipe for failure. I honestly don't understand the desire for municipal grocery stores at all. Grocery stores famously operate on super slim margins, so it's not like they're raking in the dough. Many of them are often run extremely well. In Texas, HEB is so beloved that a lot of people consider it far better at disaster recovery operations than th…

Simple fix really, HEB should just open up stores up north.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#75

Post by [deleted] »

shimman wrote: post #10
halflife wrote: post #3

This sounds extremely non economically viable. The municipality which has monopoly on land taxes and costs will compete with stores that must pay taxes and rent? Won’t it just cause neighboring stores to close? Won’t a better option be subsidizing taxes for grocery stores, and let the discounts competitively pass unto the customers?

You sound extremely privileged and frankly out of touch (not uncommon with the HN demographic). Do you think working families in NYC don't deserve the same monetary relief that massive corporations get with their own welfare programs? Why should trillion multinational companies take our public money to subsidize their businesses and we can't do the same for workers? Why do you prefer helping non human entities (corpo…

[deleted]

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#76

Post by hnthrowaway0315 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #50
flats wrote: post #12

I was very skeptical of these plans at first—as a New Yorker, I don’t exactly have a lot of trust in our city’s government to run things well. But I’ve come around. Let’s try something new! Let’s show people that local governments in the United States really are capable of making a difference in their daily lives. If it fails, well, we tried & we’ll keep trying.

"Hey, let's try something new!" without a plan for success is just a recipe for failure. I honestly don't understand the desire for municipal grocery stores at all. Grocery stores famously operate on super slim margins, so it's not like they're raking in the dough. Many of them are often run extremely well. In Texas, HEB is so beloved that a lot of people consider it far better at disaster recovery operations than th…

I have a feeling that those slim margins don't really mean that Walmart is making e.g. 3 bucks on every 100 bucks (https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/WMT/walmart/profit...).

There gotta be a lot of accounting magics working here. Otherwise you can't explain why they simply don't sell everything and buy bonds. I don't have a theory so hopefully some finance people can explain.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#77

Post by halflife »

lexicality wrote: post #16
halflife wrote: post #3

This sounds extremely non economically viable. The municipality which has monopoly on land taxes and costs will compete with stores that must pay taxes and rent? Won’t it just cause neighboring stores to close? Won’t a better option be subsidizing taxes for grocery stores, and let the discounts competitively pass unto the customers?

> Won’t a better option be subsidizing taxes for grocery stores, and let the discounts competitively pass unto the customers? I'm sure this time trickle-down economics will work and not simply line the pockets of business owners

When you have a highly competitive market with plenty of actors lower cost does trickle down. Otherwise you’re talking about an extremely complicated cartel which cannot exist.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#78

Post by philipallstar »

asdff wrote: post #73
philipallstar wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't argue that the US healthcare system is so good that no market distortion can be detected from its current structure.

>Charges $100 for a tylenol because insurance or medicare will blindly pay for it Yup no distortions here just good old fashion free market!

Indeed.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#79

Post by ceejayoz »

WalterBright wrote: post #70
ceejayoz wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Lots of things governments need to do are unprofitable, like delivering the mail or repairing the roads. I can go to my local public library, borrow the free books, use the free computers, sit in the free chairs, ask the librarian for free guidance, enjoy the free air conditioning, and even book a free meeting room to meet up with some friends to work on a project. Profitable? Fuck no. Great to have in my city?…

Privately run grocery stores have been profitable for 250 years in the US. What has changed recently? Could it be the decriminalization of shoplifting? Or maybe excessive taxes? Or mandates on wages? Vandalism? I forgot to add homeless camping around them, which discourages shoppers.

> Could it be the decriminalization of shoplifting? Or maybe excessive taxes? Or mandates on wages?

Could it be the K-shaped economy?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-08/top-1-ear...

"After years of declines, America’s middle class now holds a smaller share of U.S. wealth than the top 1%."

"Over the past 30 years, 10 percentage points of American wealth has shifted to the top 20% of earners, who now hold 70% of the total, Fed data show."

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#80

Post by rdtsc »

> “Some will insist that city-owned businesses do not work, that government cannot keep up with corporations. My answer to them is simple: I look forward to the competition. May the most affordable grocery store win,” Mamdani said.

Well it's interesting enough to try. Are they going to keep the stores open at a loss, that's not really competing then, is it?

If they sell things that are much cheaper, restaurants could start sourcing their food from there, too. Why get your chicken from some supplier if you can buy it from a cheaper government run store at much less.

But then, if these stores are not run at a loss, it means somehow there is this large inefficiency that other stores haven't tapped into. And if I had to guess, grocery stores don't seem like a large margin business, but perhaps that's just my ignorance as it's not something I ever looked into in detail.

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