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Programming Used to Be Free

purplesyringa.moe

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Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#71

Post by professoretc »

boomlinde wrote: post #49

So far it still seems like it still is, but I think we will shortly have a lot of convoluted and very sparsely informational code that will be a PITA to read as a human. I'm already reading a ton of LLM generated code by less skilled developers and understanding and reviewing it requires a paranoid attention to detail of the reader that I think you probably lack if these tools to generate large chunks of code seems l…

I just tried QBasic 1.1 and it includes context-sensitive help: press F1 on a keyword to get documentation for it.

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#72

Post by 1718627440 »

mzelling wrote: post #39

An interesting side effect might be that only people locked out from using LLMs will learn how to program in the future, as vide coding doesn't teach you the fundamentals. I know what you're thinking — when the calculator came about, being forced to compute in your head wasn't an advantage. But LLMs are different: a calculator is a strictly improved substitute for mental arithmetic, whereas an LLM is only an approxim…

> when the calculator came about, being forced to compute in your head wasn't an advantage.

I'm not sure, whether that is true, because when educators want you to learn how to compute you are "locked out" of calculators. You don't get to use a calculator until after you learned basic arithmetic and you won't use a CAS when you are supposed to learn calculus.

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#73

Post by WalterBright »

bombcar wrote: post #19
WalterBright wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 80s, a good compiler would cost several hundred dollars. Relentless competition pushed the prices down to zero.

There are those who started playing with computers when compilers were often more expensive than the computer they ran on, and those who came after you could download an entire "Unix" system and toolchain for free. Entire industries and massive companies existed for tools and tooling that is now considered free and table-stakes. Heck, an operating system used to cost money and didn't come with much at all!

PC-DOS started out at $40. Since the IBM PC cost about $3000, the $40 was more or less free.

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#74

Post by mzelling »

1718627440 wrote: post #72
mzelling wrote: post #39

An interesting side effect might be that only people locked out from using LLMs will learn how to program in the future, as vide coding doesn't teach you the fundamentals. I know what you're thinking — when the calculator came about, being forced to compute in your head wasn't an advantage. But LLMs are different: a calculator is a strictly improved substitute for mental arithmetic, whereas an LLM is only an approxim…

> when the calculator came about, being forced to compute in your head wasn't an advantage. I'm not sure, whether that is true, because when educators want you to learn how to compute you are "locked out" of calculators. You don't get to use a calculator until after you learned basic arithmetic and you won't use a CAS when you are supposed to learn calculus.

[dead]

Re: Programming Used to Be Free

#76

Post by queenkjuul »

godshatter wrote: post #70
queenkjuul wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gemini has been teaching me embedded Linux, and last year ChatGPT taught me C#. All on the free tiers mind you. But I'm doing the work, it's just faster to ask questions than to dig through mailing lists and source code. At work though, the pressure to move fast is too high, so I'm letting Claude Code so more work these days (nowhere near the majority, but I've found things i can trust it with). I don't think i could…

I'm starting to do this at home, but the instinct to just do a web search is still there. I'm only using Claude Code at work because they are paying for it, so why not use it. I think I've used maybe 5% of my tokens for any given day so far. I need to pick a free AI and make it my goto AI mentor for what I want to learn. Once I build a few things at work I'll probably be asking Claude Code to look for problems with w…

That's why i love it for hobby projects: "man it sure would be great if the Linux kernel did this thing, if only i knew C... Oh right, the LLM knows C, i can make Linux do this even if i don't know how"

That's great. I don't care how it works, i just want the result for this specific personal project. Great. Whatever i learn about the kernel along the way is just icing.

At work, though, i NEED to know how it works, i need to be able to explain and defend it, i need to be able to expand on it. Sure if Claude Code can speed that up, great, but i can't just "let it rip" the way I might just prompt and pray with a hobby project.

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