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Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

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Re: Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

#71

It's frustrating that the only suggestion the experts interviewed have here is essentially blue-washing woman-dominated jobs. "For instance, many health care jobs could be framed as roles requiring the strength to lift people. Preschools could highlight the need for teachers who serve as positive male role models." Just reads as that one SMBC comic - "how can we make math pink ?" As if the only way they can understan…

Isn't it only a question of marketing? There's only so many lumberjacks needed in an economy. Sure you can depress the wages for awhile but there's still a limit. So you need Men do to something else and the way you do that is with marketing (and also with Men being unemployed until they accept a nursing job).

There have been some studies that show once female participation in a field/career gets past about 40%, males tend to leave (or at a minimum, fail to enter) that field/career. Historically, school teachers and secretaries were male fields. Then in WW1, there weren't enough men available, so women were encouraged to enter those jobs. After WW1, those same jobs weren't seen as "manly" enough and male participation never recovered.

Re: Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

#72
It amazing how the language differ in this kind of article when the roles are reversed. In the past we talked about inclusion, discrimination, and industries that excluded women. Now we have statements like "make girly jobs appeal to manly men.". I can just imagine how well received the statement "make manly jobs appeal to girly women" would had been around 2010.

It seems unlikely that the success of women in STEM was based on making STEM more feminine, and helping women understand that they can have STEM roles and still stay feminine. It seems more plausible that affirmative action, privileged opportunities, exclusive spaces, and preferential hiring practices had more to do in making women in STEM successful than words about femininity and masculinity.

Re: Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

#73
post #24

- nursing: I don’t want to work 60-70 hours a week at your horrific body shop of a PE asset - teaching: unruly kids. Bully’s get protected and those who stand up get punished. There’s some level of societal distrust of men around children not their own. - social work: you’re exposed to some of the worst most horrific side of society constantly for peanut pay. You’re constantly in a position where you want to help peo…

That's a shallow analysis. These reasons (which are very reasonable) aren't inherently gendered, yet don't seem to deter women as they make up something like 80-90% of these jobs, they're not "just not interested".

So... seems like gender _does_ have something to do with that? Maybe just maybe more women gravitate towards these roles because these roles are associated with traditionally-feminine values (care, empathy, nurture)?

Maybe you're "just not interested" because as a man, you've been educated with traditionally-masculine values (strength? protection? power?), and if you had grown up in an environment where these roles are associated to these values, you'd be potentially-interested in them despite their obvious downsides

Re: Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. A bunch of unemployed and "unempowered" men sitting around leads to them thinking things like: "Maybe we shouldn't be so cooperative anymore."

[flagged]

Spare the fear mongering about "my testosterones!"

Testosterone levels, when adjusted for BMI, are consistent. If you dont control for BMI they are declining, but thats a false comparison. Weed, video games and porn at home have nothing to do with testosterone.

Re: Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

#75
post #61

Postmodernist movements like DEI were never about objective reality — in fact the idea of an objective reality is outright rejected. It doesn't matter if men are being left out of jobs (statistically) — they're [according to the ideology] the eternal benefactors of invisible, omnipresent systemic privilege. This is of course the complete opposite of the ideals of liberalism and the human rights movement, which is why…

Paragraphs like this use a lot of words to not actually saying anything. If you don’t mind elaborating: What about DEI rejects reality? How have men /not/ been the clear benefactors of gender for effectively all of history, which negatively impacts women in the workplace today? Human rights is about equality, and DEI achieves that through pulling up the mistreated to reach parity, no? Are you saying “it’s not equalit…

Oof… It's a big topic. That's why I referenced a book.

You'd have to read some of Lyotard's or Foucault's work to understand the roots of this. The idea is that all knowledge is shaped by language, power structures, and cultural context. This is where we get the idea that there isn't "the truth", but that instead there is "my truth".

> Human rights is about equality, and DEI achieves that through pulling up the mistreated to reach parity, no?

Equality is an overloaded term here, which is also a device prevalent in this ideology. Similarly, the term "normal" is taken to mean either statistically common or morally acceptable or both, depending on the argument and who's making it. That's where we get the idea of the problematics of heteronormativity, for example.

It is of course debatable (and has been hotly debated for decades) what qualifies as "mistreated", and to what quantity. As is what counts as "pulling up" versus paradoxical discrimination.

---

I'm sorry, but I can't boil down decades of philosophy into a neat paragraph for you.

Re: Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

#76
post #32

people are only starting to care because really bad things happen when you start to get a large portion of the male population being disenfranchised.

Point of no return. There will be more fires and at least one rich person will be eaten.

[flagged]

Re: Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

#77
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be true if those ideals were applied in alignment with liberal values. However, the most common material form of DEI is rooted in postmodernism and its various offshoot theories (queer theory, critical race theory, intersectionality, post-colonial theory, etc) in which colourblindness is inherently racist. So, no, not really.

So many boogiemen in your post. Tell me, exactly, why does the study of queer people mean diversity and inclusion is bad? Not even going to touch your idea that colorblind racism isn't racism.

[flagged]

Re: Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole manosphere problem shows that with correct leader you can forge your own army.

Manosphere is a symptom, not a problem. And manosphere is a boogie-man nothing burger that has no leverage over men, since it's co-opted by grifters and scammers trying selling you courses. There's no actual "leader" there that men recognize.

Manosphere is perfect breeding ground for your own private army since a neolith. Currently manosphere is abused by grifters, but put there somebody with ideology who actually wants to do as much damage as possible, pool money together and you have terrorist training camp.

And just to be clear, it really does not matter what ideology you will wrap your targets into.

Re: Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed, bad faith suspected. Even adjusted for maternity and career entry/exit differences, the gender pay gap is still big and real. And while there is overlap and outliers, many more women-dominated industries are at lower pay segments (and with fewer benefits) than industries dominated by men.

How about adjusted for people who are welding things underwater or throwing 25 kilo garbage bins into a truck?

Thanks for being a big strong tall sexy garbage welder man from Europe commenting on an US specific article.

When women put on scuba gear or touch a arc welder their ovaries explode, killing them instantly.

55lbs also is well known to instantly disable women who do, in fact, labor in physical jobs.

The moment a child turns 7 and reaches that weight, women lose the ability to move the child at all, leading to tragic outcomes.

In all seriousness, just because a certain job is socialized a certain way, doesn't imply a fundamental lack of ability.

Being the only woman on a certain kind of male team sucks so so much more than having to put on scuba gear or lifting something heavy.

Re: Women are getting most of the new jobs. What's going on with men?

#80
post #46
post #26

Here's another explanation. My hypothesis goes deeper than gender imbalance. Most job interviews are theater nowadays. It's about conformity, performative culture fitting, agreeableness (read, willing to slave away without complaining). On average, women tend to better suited for such processes. Along with immigrant groups.

Please further explain this unabashed racism and sexism.

Schrödinger's immigrant, both actively refusing to conform to the host country's culture and best able to show host country's culture to get jobs
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